DRK suggestions from a non-DRK

[whiskeybravo]

I had a couple interesting thoughts cross my mind and thought I'd throw them out there. I can't say I've read ALL of the Drk suggestions but this is kind of a culmination of what I've gathered, and while not complete, maybe it's enough to help spark some other ideas or fine tuning.

Without further ado

Dark Arts

The main change to this is an effort to reduce the "spammy" feel commonly complained about. Instead of directly buffing a particular weaponskill or ability with extra potency, I propose it mainly be limited to combo finishers to achieve additional effects which will otherwise be modified from their current form. Such as:

Dark(side) Blade: Increases damage dealt by 20% for XX seconds (take away Darkside skill and have the damage effect be gained from finisher combo)

Delirium Blade: *either* reduces CD for blood weapon / blood price or increases duration blood weapon / blood price (take away Delirium and have the effect be gained from finisher combo)

(need something else for 3rd combo, perhaps Souleater combo that restores portion of hp outside of grit? lol.. Or how about giving DRK an exclusive damage down for party utility? Could be at the end of a "non-dps" combo so it's not a gain to always keep it up, and short duration of like 5 seconds so it's not up 100% of the time, just something you can time right to reduce party damage by 10% or so)

Obviously there would need to be adjustments so it's at minimum on par with current damage combos. Mainly just trying to make the kit more interesting than just "press this button", giving the weaponskills more synergy with the entire kit.

Additionally, I'd propose a stacking effect akin to monk or samurai. Either directly related to performing each combo or just simply stacking them 1-2-3. I was thinking of something along the lines of each stack increasing blood generation by X% so you could work to build this up then go ham with bloodspillers. And perhaps another ability that could convert those stacks to MP or HP. Or, even more interesting, tie the stacks into Carve & Spit, which could deliver an actual 1, 2, or 3-fold attack based on the # of stacks spent (something that could encourage you to build & spend vs build & sit on)

Blood Price

Obviously Blood Price and Blood Weapon should be free to use whenever, not limited to stance. My suggestion for BP is fairly simple, basically the same as now restoring a bit of MP, but let's also add some HP restore, and how about some Reflect damage to keep things interesting. (I think the potency would have to be lower than Vengeance if it's going to remain a short CD)


Living Dead

Sacrifices all but 1 HP to create a Dark Shadow for 10 seconds. The Dark Shadow will absorb all damage taken for it's duration, up to it's maximum HP. If after 10 seconds the Dark Shadow is not destroyed, its remaining HP will be restored to you.


So, just a few things I thought about. Please discuss!

[HyperiusUltima]

Just to note, the 20% Damage Buff would basically make DRK start to compete with WAR and leave Pally behind some(which I think is ok since they’re technically the ‘defensive’ tank). Blood Price restoring HP would increase the CD of it more than likely; but if they do that they’d Have to have good scaling.

[whiskeybravo]

Just to note, the 20% Damage Buff would basically make DRK start to compete with WAR and leave Pally behind some(which I think is ok since they’re technically the ‘defensive’ tank). Blood Price restoring HP would increase the CD of it more than likely; but if they do that they’d Have to have good scaling.

I guess I sort of forgot to mention that the 20% buff that currently comes from Darkside would be made into a DA combo finisher. Thus giving the class more interaction instead of just having a button you press for a stance and then forget about.

[shao32]

Just to note, the 20% Damage Buff would basically make DRK start to compete with WAR and leave Pally behind some(which I think is ok since they’re technically the ‘defensive’ tank). Blood Price restoring HP would increase the CD of it more than likely; but if they do that they’d Have to have good scaling.

technically the rule is low utility high dps, DRK have the lowest utility of the 3 and even if we want to say TBN is equal in utility as SIO then DRK should have same levels of dps as WAR, PLD will not suffer on they spot bcs they have so much utility they still have a high impact on progresion and some strats.

Living Dead

Sacrifices all but 1 HP to create a Dark Shadow for 10 seconds. The Dark Shadow will absorb all damage taken for it's duration, up to it's maximum HP. If after 10 seconds the Dark Shadow is not destroyed, its remaining HP will be restored to you.

on the other hand i really like the livind dead change, it renforced the DRK lore of sacrifice but i dont get something, if DRK use living dead, sacrifice all his HP and being invulnerable 10 seconds, how would you expect dark shadow being destroyed for the HP? its then a super TBN and no a invulnerability? then its a super shield and depending of the strengh of the shield a TB or shared mechanic can kill you

[whiskeybravo]

on the other hand i really like the livind dead change, it renforced the DRK lore of sacrifice but i dont get something, if DRK use living dead, sacrifice all his HP and being invulnerable 10 seconds, how would you expect dark shadow being destroyed for the HP? its then a super TBN and no a invulnerability? then its a super shield and depending of the strengh of the shield a TB or shared mechanic can kill you

That was a last minute idea I didn't get to fully flesh out. I imagined it as something like a shield, you could say, but if it isn't fully exhausted it just returns what's left. If the damage is more than the Dark Shadow's HP (let's say eating an Ultimate Embrace) then it's just destroyed and you're left with 1 HP.

I think it would be OK to have the DRK able to receive heals for the duration so healers would be able to heal them up before the effect expires and they start taking damage again.

As for possible CD, I was thinking 4 mins. I don't think it would be good (for PLD) to have both DRK and WAR on 3 min invulns compared to Hallowed. Especially considering there's been some debate about increasing Holmgang's duration.. But that's a large scope issue in general. I think the CD could be reduced given it's not a "guaranteed" 10-sec invuln, could just be for one attack. It get's rid of the die-by-your-own-ability problem and becomes a little more useful during an emergency.

[Zyneste]

The only think I really want from DRK is to give Soul Eater an HP return while outside of grit. Why is this even a thing. On this same logic, Storm's eye should cause damage up while in deliverance but change to Storm's path in defiance and cause healing return.. but it doesn't because more freedom with utility is better. ;-;

The best living dead change ive seen is that when the DRK dies and isnt healed in time, to just place brink of death on them instead of actually causing them to die. Its a large punishment, but not as bad as dying.


If I were to give it a new skill in the next Expac it would be to reduce max HP by like 10%. Reduce Damage taken by 10% and increase damage done by 10%. Making the value of Soul Eater's self sustain heal go up.

[whiskeybravo]

The best living dead change ive seen is that when the DRK dies and isnt healed in time, to just place brink of death on them instead of actually causing them to die. Its a large punishment, but not as bad as dying.

That still sounds like a terrible Living Dead lol. The whole point is that there shouldn't be a punishment to using your invulnerability skill. PLD isn't punished. WAR isn't punished (thought the root-in-place can suck in dungeons with lots of aoe mobs, generally not a problem in raids). So why is DRK?

[Zyneste]

That still sounds like a terrible Living Dead lol. The whole point is that there shouldn't be a punishment to using your invulnerability skill. PLD isn't punished. WAR isn't punished (thought the root-in-place can suck in dungeons with lots of aoe mobs, generally not a problem in raids). So why is DRK?

WAr can trap themselves in AOEs and is unable to use invuln without a target.

PLD can use the god of all invulns but its cool down is only accessible once or twice an encounter.

DRK has allot of flexibility in his cool down, allowing him to pop it up to 10 seconds early, not a second of his invuln is wasted. It will proc when he actually needs it. He can also run around and use it without a target.

Living dead has allot of things going for it. The punishment mechanic is fine, its just a little too much. This sort of compromise would avoid wipes from failing the skill.

Having a reliable non Grit Soul eater heal would also help in getting their max health back without losing DPS.

[shao32]

That was a last minute idea I didn't get to fully flesh out. I imagined it as something like a shield, you could say, but if it isn't fully exhausted it just returns what's left. If the damage is more than the Dark Shadow's HP (let's say eating an Ultimate Embrace) then it's just destroyed and you're left with 1 HP.

I think it would be OK to have the DRK able to receive heals for the duration so healers would be able to heal them up before the effect expires and they start taking damage again.

As for possible CD, I was thinking 4 mins. I don't think it would be good (for PLD) to have both DRK and WAR on 3 min invulns compared to Hallowed. Especially considering there's been some debate about increasing Holmgang's duration.. But that's a large scope issue in general. I think the CD could be reduced given it's not a "guaranteed" 10-sec invuln, could just be for one attack. It get's rid of the die-by-your-own-ability problem and becomes a little more useful during an emergency.

i preffer the use all you HP and being unable to die for at least 7 seconds with the same recast, since we can move it will be perfect, only we need a reliable source of recovering hp.
im in the opinion no invulnerability should be less that 5 min so i dont think that should be done.

WAr can trap themselves in AOEs and is unable to use invuln without a target.

PLD can use the god of all invulns but its cool down is only accessible once or twice an encounter.

DRK has allot of flexibility in his cool down, allowing him to pop it up to 10 seconds early, not a second of his invuln is wasted. It will proc when he actually needs it. He can also run around and use it without a target.

Living dead has allot of things going for it. The punishment mechanic is fine, its just a little too much. This sort of compromise would avoid wipes from failing the skill.

the 10 seconds precast just make it easy to use but no matter if is holmgang or hallowed no healer would heal the tank if he know they will be use a invulneravility and precast it 10 seconds its worthless you archive the same result when you saw the attack and all done, the 10 second after are the same, except WHM the other 2 healers arent going to wait to DRK reach 9 seconds to heal him and if you are a WHM you just trow benediction bcs is a offgdc so dont affect you rotation at all.

[whiskeybravo]

WAr can trap themselves in AOEs and is unable to use invuln without a target.

PLD can use the god of all invulns but its cool down is only accessible once or twice an encounter.

DRK has allot of flexibility in his cool down, allowing him to pop it up to 10 seconds early, not a second of his invuln is wasted. It will proc when he actually needs it. He can also run around and use it without a target.

Living dead has allot of things going for it. The punishment mechanic is fine, its just a little too much. This sort of compromise would avoid wipes from failing the skill.

Having a reliable non Grit Soul eater heal would also help in getting their max health back without losing DPS.

Needing a target has not really been an issue with WAR. Sure, there are a few mechanics spread about, such as Nael diving in on UCOB where PLD might pop HG early (without a target). But those are very few and far between in my experience. And, you can certainly get trapped in AoEs in dungeons, but as I already mentioned it's not been an issue in any savage raid this expansion, at least. The only thing I can think of that comes close is forsaken 3 & 4, you can't pop Holm too late or else you won't make it the edge in time if you get confuse tether. Worst case, it's not like CDs have a strict usage so if you can't use Holmgang for something in particular you just use it on something else. And the most obvious difference should be, WAR doesn't need to be healed to full after Holmgang. That's really the whole kicker with LD, why is there this additional burden? It's not like it's so much better than Holm and Hallowed that it needs a negative condition attached to it everytime you use it.

I think the HP restore is made a bigger deal than it really is. Sure, all the return heals add up over the course of a fight, but at any given moment it's not going to save you, it's not going to get anywhere near close to saving you. And WAR is not performing Storm's Path for the self heal, they are doing it for the gauge generation. The self heal is just there.

That said, I don't see a particular reason why the self heal is currently locked behind grit. (I think it's a relic from the sweeping tank changes SB initially brought) It'd be the same for DRK, not spamming soul eater for the heal but because it's your highest dps combo. The heal just happens to be there. But I'd rather see a significant HP restore for DRK, changing soul eater alone isn't enough. It doesn't really do anything make DRK appreciably better than before.

So I didn't really approach that in my OP since I'd like to see something a bit different. Such as, being able to accumulate another stacking resource by performing Dark Arts that could then be converted into HP or MP in a given situation. It would need to be a fairly simple resource since DRK is already managing 2 (MP and Blood), I just think having another resource like that would open up a lot of avenues to make DRK unique again. Give it a noticeably different feel than the other tanks.

i preffer the use all you HP and being unable to die for at least 7 seconds with the same recast, since we can move it will be perfect, only we need a reliable source of recovering hp.
im in the opinion no invulnerability should be less that 5 min so i dont think that should be done.

Mmm.. I kinda see what you're saying, but in my head the DRK is "technically" invulnerable. I guess I worded it kind of short, but the idea is to have the clone take all damage while it's up. I know it kind of sounds like "if I have 60,000 HP then the clone will only absorb 59,999 HP worth of damage" but that's not exactly what I meant. It would be treated just like you, if you have 60k HP and take 100k damage, you just die. The 40k left-over damage doesn't transfer to someone else. So the clone would be the same. You could pop it a little early to absorb some AA and a TB. But this change wouldn't allow you to use it on something like UE+Hyperdrive because the UE would kill the clone (as there wouldn't be any HP left after). If we change it around and say Hyperdrive was first instead of after, maybe Hyperdrive doesn't do enough damage to kill the clone right away so it's still up to take the UE.