why does enochian exist for black mage

[Ramesses]

A job's difficulty isn't only tied to the number of different buttons you have to press in order to make it work. BLM's rotation difficulty is on-par with WAR's, but is one of the hardest job to play in savage raids.

Yes, this.

Movement during rotations is one of the main difficulties of playing Black Mage effectively in high level raids... which is why we emphasize spell speed and crit. When we "turret" (which my friends know me to refer to as "Nuking Mode") we obliterate a lot and can sustain high damage that is up there with the rest of the DPS classes.

Its when it boils down to maintaining skip-rope mechanics that it loses its optimization to deliver high damage, therein lies the difficultly of knowing how to keep up. Its possible, just takes a lot of know-how on the bosses and knowing how to recover your rotations.

[Sunako]

A job's difficulty isn't only tied to the number of different buttons you have to press in order to make it work. BLM's rotation difficulty is on-par with WAR's, but is one of the hardest job to play in savage raids. On the opposite, SMN has what feels like a billion different keys to press on a 2 min long rotation but is fairly easy to play.

As Dualgunner said, RDM might be easy to play, it doesn't mean it's so easy to optimize. But I can understand that you don't need so much thought while going through the Swallow's Compass.

Well optimization is not only how you plan your movements. For SMN you have to plan multiple things that rdm or blm not have to. Like should you push your aetherflows before downtime or do that delay your next aetherflow if you do it?, should you use rouse if boss gonna disappear in 5 seconds, should you hold devotion and radiant shield, when you wanna summon bahamut, not overlapping rouse with bahamut, using dreadwyrm stance before aetherflow come back from the cd, should you save aetherflows for the add phase and do you delay your next aetherflow if you do it?, check your pet is not gonna get cleaved and die, check your pet placement so everybody is gonna get devotion especially if you use garuda, plan dot timers it is worth recast dots and sometimes it is even better use different opener based of duration of the fight.

It is same than saying mch is easy play because they can keep 100% uptime easily which is not. Difficulty is kinda subjective, for somebody using timers properly is harder and for somebody using triplecast, swiftcast, sharpcast and aetherial manipulation for movement harder, but even most movements are usually behind timers and you know already before match where you have to move and when except during progress maybe.

[Megguido]

Well optimization is not only how you plan your movements. For SMN you have to plan multiple things that rdm or blm not have to. Like should you push your aetherflows before downtime or do that delay your next aetherflow if you do it?, should you use rouse if boss gonna disappear in 5 seconds, should you hold devotion and radiant shield, when you wanna summon bahamut, not overlapping rouse with bahamut, using dreadwyrm stance before aetherflow come back from the cd, should you save aetherflows for the add phase and do you delay your next aetherflow if you do it?, check your pet is not gonna get cleaved and die, check your pet placement so everybody is gonna get devotion especially if you use garuda, plan dot timers it is worth recast dots and sometimes it is even better use different opener based of duration of the fight.

It is same than saying mch is easy play because they can keep 100% uptime easily which is not. Difficulty is kinda subjective, for somebody using timers properly is harder and for somebody using triplecast, swiftcast, sharpcast and aetherial manipulation for movement harder, but even most movements are usually behind timers and you know already before match where you have to move and when except during progress maybe.

Never said SMN was easy to play. It's actually my main DPS job (and my 2nd main job overall, though I'm terrible at it), and there's a lot to do to optimize as you said. Some of them are fairly easy to perform (keeping 2nd Rouse for after Bahamut, or using DWT ~16s before AF comes off CD, for example), others are more difficult and require more thoughts (managing pet's positionning and abilities, Devotion, DoTs sync'ed with raid buffs etc...).

SMN is an example imo, of a job that is difficult to play at first, but that becomes fluid and easy to play at a decent level after some training. Optimization is another story, where even easy things become way more complicated.

[Dualgunner]

I guess my main point is, I'm a bit tired of the "RDM is braindead" meme. It's simplistic, but it does retain some nuances that are pretty clear in a party which RDMs understand and respect them, and which ones don't. Sorry for going offtopic.

[Zerathor]

Idk if there's really a topic anymore. Enochian is an easy mechanic. The fact that it's a cooldown instead of a trait should help whip new blm's into understanding they should never lose it. which I like because for many other jobs, more casual players can fall into a rut of doing their rotation horribly wrong but assume it's right because it flows. Blm only flows well when you're at least 80% correct on it.

That's my opinion on it. It could easily be made into a trait that just auto applies when you enter AF/UI, but at the end of the day it only saves one ogcd clip, and saves one keybind on a job that needs very few key binds in comparison to competing dps jobs. Which to me at least is a total non-issue compared to fixing other issues. Like freeze/b2 being useless, and f2 becoming useless at 70.

[Ryallen]

A job's difficulty isn't only tied to the number of different buttons you have to press in order to make it work. BLM's rotation difficulty is on-par with WAR's, but is one of the hardest job to play in savage raids. On the opposite, SMN has what feels like a billion different keys to press on a 2 min long rotation but is fairly easy to play.

As Dualgunner said, RDM might be easy to play, it doesn't mean it's so easy to optimize. But I can understand that you don't need so much thought while going through the Swallow's Compass.

The point I was trying to make was that RDM's rotation is still stupid simple and doesn't have anything more complicated than most other DPS classes to keep track of in a raid. BLM has to track their timer, SMN has to track Aetherflow and Dreadwyrm Aether and their immense number of oGCDs, SAM has to track their Sen Gauge to know what skills to use and when, BRD has to track their music, and so on and so forth. What does RDM have to keep track of? Two numbers on a bar that need to be kept within a decent range that don't go down unless you die. Acceleration is a buff that you pop almost immediately and Fleche and Contre de Sixte are oGCDs for pure damage. Nothing to maintain or refresh.

Optimization is about uptime and buff windows, both of which a Red Mage suffers greatly without a little luck and a lot of foresight.

RDM has two buffs total, one of which is expended when Verthunder or Veraero is cast and the other is only popped when they also use Manafication. RDM doesn't have to worry about anything that any other DPS isn't already managing buff-wise.

[MoroMurasaki]

The point I was trying to make was that RDM's rotation is still stupid simple and doesn't have anything more complicated than most other DPS classes to keep track of in a raid. BLM has to track their timer, SMN has to track Aetherflow and Dreadwyrm Aether and their immense number of oGCDs, SAM has to track their Sen Gauge to know what skills to use and when, BRD has to track their music, and so on and so forth. What does RDM have to keep track of? Two numbers on a bar that need to be kept within a decent range that don't go down unless you die. Acceleration is a buff that you pop almost immediately and Fleche and Contre de Sixte are oGCDs for pure damage. Nothing to maintain or refresh.



RDM has two buffs total, one of which is expended when Verthunder or Veraero is cast and the other is only popped when they also use Manafication. RDM doesn't have to worry about anything that any other DPS isn't already managing buff-wise.

Maybe you need to pay more attention to optimization so that you feel like you have more to do. Things like fitting a Swiftcasted proc spell in after your Verfinisher during Embolden for extra potency or making optimal use of your oGCDs through slidecasting can make RDM feel fuller. If you played any dps class the way you advocate playing RDM it would feel empty because according to you all you have to do is balance your mana.

Lets not begin to talk about things like buff alignment or Manafaction optimization based on fight length either. Just don't unbalance your mana, I'm sure that's enough >.>

Does RDM have a simple rotation? It's not overly complex, no. It flows well, for sure. I really like what Zerathor said though; it flowing well can lead many to think they're doing well when they're not. And there's definitely a lot of room to optimize with "8 buttons".

Very this.

[Dualgunner]

So your argument is that you can't optimize very much because it's an 8 button rotation, with two number gauges to track and oGCDs that are just pure damage. Fair enough. Now let's be intellectually honest and keep it about RDM optimization instead of trying to shift this over to "RDM vs other jobs."

You have 8 buttons. Your gauge grows in increments of 3/3, 4/4, 9/0, 0/9, 11/0, 0/11, 21/0, and 0/21, as well as an ability to double your current resource. You want to get to 80/80+, but not overcap at 100/100. You want to line your burst up with a minute-to-minute burst as best as you can, but your burst will happen roughly every 40 seconds; you also have to take into account the idea that RNG will decide your mana generation pace to a degree, so it will be rare that any two instances will be the same (ie, you won't always be on the same GCD at the same time every fight, like, say, Samurai).

You also have to take into account your entire mana generation plan will be off if you have to raise at any point. You also need to know in advance if there are any points where you can't be in melee; if you have to leave and know you'll overcap if you do, you burn some mana into E. Riposte before moving out.

Not to mention displacement optimization, which you conveniently leave out, which is a very dangerous optimization to do while learning it because it can put you into walls or mechanics, or leave you out of range of healing. It remains a 130 potency attack, however, that has a 35 second cooldown that gets refreshed when manafication is used; just ignoring it is a lot of damage lost. Same with Corp-a-Corps, but that's much less dangerous in most situations.

Does RDM have a simple rotation? It's not overly complex, no. It flows well, for sure. I really like what Zerathor said though; it flowing well can lead many to think they're doing well when they're not. And there's definitely a lot of room to optimize with "8 buttons".

[Zerathor]

The point I was trying to make was that RDM's rotation is still stupid simple and doesn't have anything more complicated than most other DPS classes to keep track of in a raid. BLM has to track their timer, SMN has to track Aetherflow and Dreadwyrm Aether and their immense number of oGCDs, SAM has to track their Sen Gauge to know what skills to use and when, BRD has to track their music, and so on and so forth. What does RDM have to keep track of? Two numbers on a bar that need to be kept within a decent range that don't go down unless you die. Acceleration is a buff that you pop almost immediately and Fleche and Contre de Sixte are oGCDs for pure damage. Nothing to maintain or refresh.



RDM has two buffs total, one of which is expended when Verthunder or Veraero is cast and the other is only popped when they also use Manafication. RDM doesn't have to worry about anything that any other DPS isn't already managing buff-wise.

Well again, he's talking about optimization. Fine tuning it to fights, and lining things up with the party. None of the job's base rotations are difficult, not even smn's 2 minute loop meme. Adapting them to fights and groups to pull out its maximum potential output can be however.

And that's the difference between a rdm being outdone by the tanks, and a rdm that's closer to bard output. That helps a lot.

[Ryallen]

So your argument is that you can't optimize very much because it's an 8 button rotation, with two number gauges to track and oGCDs that are just pure damage. Fair enough. Now let's be intellectually honest and keep it about RDM optimization instead of trying to shift this over to "RDM vs other jobs."

You have 8 buttons. Your gauge grows in increments of 3/3, 4/4, 9/0, 0/9, 11/0, 0/11, 21/0, and 0/21, as well as an ability to double your current resource. You want to get to 80/80+, but not overcap at 100/100. You want to line your burst up with a minute-to-minute burst as best as you can, but your burst will happen roughly every 40 seconds; you also have to take into account the idea that RNG will decide your mana generation pace to a degree, so it will be rare that any two instances will be the same (ie, you won't always be on the same GCD at the same time every fight, like, say, Samurai).

You also have to take into account your entire mana generation plan will be off if you have to raise at any point. You also need to know in advance if there are any points where you can't be in melee; if you have to leave and know you'll overcap if you do, you burn some mana into E. Riposte before moving out.

Not to mention displacement optimization, which you conveniently leave out, which is a very dangerous optimization to do while learning it because it can put you into walls or mechanics, or leave you out of range of healing. It remains a 130 potency attack, however, that has a 35 second cooldown that gets refreshed when manafication is used; just ignoring it is a lot of damage lost. Same with Corp-a-Corps, but that's much less dangerous in most situations.

Does RDM have a simple rotation? It's not overly complex, no. It flows well, for sure. I really like what Zerathor said though; it flowing well can lead many to think they're doing well when they're not. And there's definitely a lot of room to optimize with "8 buttons".

That's a lot of words just for "keep the numbers balanced and know when to use them." Just because you *can* think about RDM's rotation in minute detail doesn't mean you *have* to. You can make literally any class complicated by thinking about it on a millisecond by millisecond basis. RDM's rotation is still one of the easiest in the game to manage because all you really have to look for is what procs you have up and what numbers are higher and lower. And knowing when to use your gap closer and opener, along with Manafication and Embolden, is all stuff other classes have to think about as well, especially melee classes. Except most of them don't have the luxury of being able to back up out of danger at will. What RDM has to manage is no more complicated than any other class has to manage, especially seeing as the only buff RDM would be able to contribute to a raid wide DPS burst is Embolden.