White Raven earring given out at The Rising event 2018

[Theodric]

What progress would be stifled here?

Granting current players access to items that are no longer obtainable is progress. Especially when they're tied to the more interesting parts of the game's lore. There are a lot of fans of all things Garlemald, myself included.

Furthermore, the developers already seem to believe that they have to tread on thin ice and not change things to any major extent. We don't need such a mentality reinforced. Imagine if FFXI players demanded that things like the scorpion harness were removed from Eureka because they already showed up back in FFXI? That'd be just as ridiculous as the arguments against the earrings from 1.0 being added. Again, note how numerous 1.0 players have stated that they are completely fine with the earrings being added and some of those arguing against it aren't even 1.0 players themselves.

[Miste]

Your accusation of hypocrisy rests on the assumption that I care about the item while telling people they're juvenile if they care about the item, so naturally if I don't care about the item, your accusation is shown to be unfounded. I'm surprised that actually needed explaining. If you need further explanations of such trivial reasoning, I will not bother responding again.

Do you need to read my reply again? Because you seem to be missing my point entirely.

This is kind of a hypocritical argument?

You're telling them to "grow up" and not put any worth into digital video game items, but people* could also "grow up" and not care if the same digital video game item is simply named differently from the original item?

Both sides** are caring about a digital item, just in different ways. If people need to "grow up" and not put any worth into video game items then why does it matter if the item is named replica or not?

Let's go over my reply again so you can understand.

* I said "people", not "you", there is a difference between using the general term "people" and using "you".

** I said "both sides", not you, there is a difference between the general term "both sides" and using "you".

The hypocrisy of the statement you made has nothing to do with if you personally care about the item or not. You still made the statement regardless.

You seem to be under the impression that I accused YOU of being hypocritical, but if you actually read my replies no where do I accuse you of such. I said the statement is hypocritical or the argument is hypocritical. Reading thoroughly will help you follow the discussion properly.

I am surprised this actually needs to be explained? If you need further explanations of such trivial reasoning, I will not bother responding again.

I don't know why you feel the need to do these mental gymnastics instead of just admitting you messed up. /shrug

The attitude harms game development because it constrains the potential future directions of the game under threat of a bunch of overly sensitive players getting their feelings hurt via retroactive "depreciation" of their experiences, rather than leaving the developers free to focus solely on producing content that will be enjoyable at the time it is current, which is the product they're selling and how it creates value to consumers.

So putting the words "replica" into the item name somehow harms game development?

[Bahati]

I don't see the point of arguing the importance of the earrings themselves. That is a personal opinion with no right or wrong answer nor is anyone entitled to telling another they are caring too much or too little. To each their own opinion.

The point is the people in here trying to set rules for what SE can and cannot do with their game and the items they put in it. This is a non-negotiable fact that everyone here with an active sub has agreed to. Allow me to post the direct wording of the ToS:

YOU ACQUIRE NO OWNERSHIP OR PROPERTY RIGHTS IN ANY CHARACTER OR OTHER IN-GAME VIRTUAL GOOD, AND ARE ONLY LICENSED TO USE SUCH CHARACTERS AND ASSETS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE AGREEMENTS. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT AND ANY VIRTUAL GOODS AND CHARACTERS DO NOT HAVE ANY MONETARY VALUE. SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

[Dualgunner]

Especially when they're tied to the more interesting parts of the game's lore. There are a lot of fans of all things Garlemald, myself included.

Okay, so you want the White Ravens because you're a Garlemald fan. Fair enough. Replica White Ravens would serve your purposes just as well.

[Istaru]

Well, could be worse. Could be selling them for $9.99

That comes next year when they are added for $5.00 or whatever like all event items.

[Nixxe]

I fail to see how it's juvenile to care about one's accomplishments. You better believe I'd be a little vexed if, come 5.0, Ultimate can be unsynced, thus allowing people who didn't put even half as much work as I did to have the same title and weapons.

I never said it was juvenile to care about one's accomplishments. I said it was juvenile to need the world to care about them to value them yourself.

It seems I'm in the process of getting ganged up on by rather careless readers though, so I'll take my leave. Communication is bound to be a fruitless endeavor when dealing with people who would rather win an argument than understand what was said.

Do you need to read my reply again? Because you seem to be missing my point entirely.



Let's go over my reply again so you can understand.

* I said "people", not "you", there is a difference between using the general term "people" and using "you".

** I said "both sides", not you, there is a difference between the general term "both sides" and using "you".

The hypocrisy of the statement you made has nothing to do with if you personally care about the item or not. You still made the statement regardless.

You seem to be under the impression that I accused YOU of being hypocritical, but if you actually read my replies no where do I accuse you of such. I said the statement is hypocritical or the argument is hypocritical. Reading thoroughly will help you follow the discussion properly.

I am surprised this actually needs to be explained? If you need further explanations of such trivial reasoning, I will not bother responding again.

I don't know why you feel the need to do these mental gymnastics instead of just admitting you messed up. /shrug





So putting the words "replica" into the item name somehow harms game development?

You are right. I apologize. I assumed you understood what hypocrisy was and worked off that assumption, but that was an erroneous assumption. My argument is of course not hypocritical simply because other people who are not me behave in some particular fashion, as neither I nor my argument are accountable for things outside the scope of that argument.

[Iscah]

But how would you feel if you discovered your partner was giving out those engagements rings to everyone he met that wanted one?

Suddenly your ring wouldn't feel as special would it if your partner was giving them out freely to everyone. I imagine you'd be pretty angry....

The white ravens are no different it's not what the item is. It's why the item signifies and why you have it.. they start throwing them out to everyone and the significance of that item is crushed

I’d see this more like the jeweller that made the ring giving copies of it out to others. It doesn’t change the significance of your ring.

Where it gets muddy is that in real life, anyone else who got the identical ring still does not have your ring, just something exactly physically like it.

That distinction can’t exist in the game (other than calling them replicas of course). From an in-universe perspective, these earrings being given out to commemorate the Rising are still not your earrings. They just look exactly alike, to the point that nobody else could tell them apart.


Someone earlier mentioned Haurchefant’s shield, which I do indeed treasure as an item in-game just as if it was a real object, a gift given to me. And yet... you can buy another one from the Calamity Salvager. It’s the exact same ‘unique’ item. You could throw it away and buy another one later and the game won’t see it as anything different.

When the glamour dresser was first introduced, and putting things in there was “reducing them to a glamoured image”, I couldn’t possibly do that to a treasured gift - so I stowed it in my saddlebag and bought a new one from the salvager to put in the dresser. The game makes no distinction between those two shields, but I knew. One was precious and the other was a perfect but meaningless replica I’d bought from a merchant.


(And yes, pixels on a screen and all that. I do realise that at the boringest level of reality I’ve been given an image of a shield by a fictional character, but so long as I’m engaged in this story, I-as-my-character will treasure it.)

[Hazama999]

I never said it was juvenile to care about one's accomplishments. I said it was juvenile to need the world to care about them to value them yourself.

It seems I'm in the process of getting ganged up on by rather careless readers though, so I'll take my leave. Communication is bound to be a fruitless endeavor when dealing with people who would rather win an argument than understand what was said.

Agree with the bolded bit.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I never said it was juvenile to care about one's accomplishments. I said it was juvenile to need the world to care about them to value them yourself.

It seems I'm in the process of getting ganged up on by rather careless readers though, so I'll take my leave. Communication is bound to be a fruitless endeavor when dealing with people who would rather win an argument than understand what was said.

You accuse me of careless reading only to make assumptions I, in no way, insinuated. Bit hypocritical, hmm?

I couldn't care less what someone else thinks about Ultimate. I have my experiences with the content. I simply said, I'd be a bit annoyed if the fights could be unsynced.

[Istaru]

To the people who have been arguing the position that they should have stayed what they were, as someone who has them and uses them in all her outfits, thank you. Good luck to you all, I’m not going to bother.

I personally gave up on explaining anything to this “community” sometime ago.