We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[SieyaM]

So I have seen the raid gear argument run around a lot and it appears to me that what raiders really want is just something they can run around with saying "I'm better than you because I've got this", because the power of the gear they seem to want will give them the ability to solo current dungeons. Maybe I am misinterpreting things but the current scheme of things does give you gear that is the strongest in the game, although maybe they could change around some of the sub stats to suit your needs better. But this still doesn't seem to be enough because it isn't wildly over powered and make running any other content a solo one shot affair.

[WhyAmIHere]

...and i'll keep repeating this because nobody has presented a convincing logical case for why raid gear needs to be exclusively a higher ilvl and that if something is as powerful then it somehow becomes devalued instead of simply being an alternative.

Stop.

You are awful at trying to make a point. People have given you several times over reasons for why things are the way they are. You are incapable of simply going "I acknowledge this thing but still do not agree with it," instead resorting to "nobody is saying anything anything of value so all points being made are ignored." But ya know what? I'm up for something fun.

1The answer is why do you care? 2Does it somehow invalidate the time you spent? 3Would you have not done the raids if there was alternative gear at the same level? 4If you truly enjoy raiding then the fun should be in the raiding itself right? 5All parties spent the same amount of time in their choice of activity, yet the rewards are quite disproportional. *shrug*

1) why do you care? The content clearly doesn't appeal to you, so why do you care?
2) ...people are already complaining that the new The Rising event invalidates the time they spent in 1.0 by rewarding players with what soon used to be exclusive items. They feel like the time they spent will be invalidated by this... in spite of the other things 1.0 legacy players have to laud over.
3) funny thing. There's more than one piece of gear that's i370. Best in slot sets used a mixture of Raid gear and Tome gear (for the most part), and if you're a tank you can even count on spending gil to penta-meld newly released combat crafted accessories.
An extension of that point you make: did you farm each EX primal in ARR/HW for their respective mount, or did you wait until you could simply unsync it and do the content more easily? Have you done the same for SB's EX primal mounts, or will you wait til 5.0 to unsync them and do the content more easily? (My point, surprise surprise, is most people will want to do the thing if it's easier and it leads to the same reward. That is basic. Human. Nature.)
4) If you enjoy doing Eureka then spending time gaining elemental level and lockboxes should be fun in and of itself and offer nothing else, right?
5) Already dealt with this point.

Get over yourself.

[Theodric]

There's a very interesting correlation between some of the people getting up in arms over the supposed 'need' for raid gear to be exclusive and better than anything else on offer and the dubious party finder messages found in-game. I won't name any names for obvious reasons, though I'm sure attentive players can come to their own conclusions.

I thought it was odd that this thread was being heavily derailed by that particular talking point and that very few of the people talking about gear being 'devalued' were mentioning the much bigger concern that is people being boosted for gil and real world money where high end PvP and PvE content is concerned. Worse yet, account sharing is supposedly used for some of the harder content as it's impossible to carry someone through the extremely high end content in this game.

[Magic-Mal]

There's a very interesting correlation between some of the people getting up in arms over the supposed 'need' for raid gear to be exclusive and better than anything else on offer and the dubious party finder messages found in-game. I won't name any names for obvious reasons, though I'm sure attentive players can come to their own conclusions.

I thought it was odd that this thread was being heavily derailed by that particular talking point and that very few of the people talking about gear being 'devalued' were mentioning the much bigger concern that is people being boosted for gil and real world money where high end PvP and PvE content is concerned. Worse yet, account sharing is supposedly used for some of the harder content as it's impossible to carry someone through the extremely high end content in this game.

I don't like that this just turned into a "Why do you need raider gear?" thread myself. I thought really hard about including that section of my post. But I had hoped it wouldn't get such a response. Just once...

[WhyAmIHere]

There's a very interesting correlation between some of the people getting up in arms over the supposed 'need' for raid gear to be exclusive and better than anything else on offer and the dubious party finder messages found in-game. I won't name any names for obvious reasons, though I'm sure attentive players can come to their own conclusions.

I thought it was odd that this thread was being heavily derailed by that particular talking point and that very few of the people talking about gear being 'devalued' were mentioning the much bigger concern that is people being boosted for gil and real world money where high end PvP and PvE content is concerned. Worse yet, account sharing is supposedly used for some of the harder content as it's impossible to carry someone through the extremely high end content in this game.

strictly speaking to eureka gear... isn't having a weapon, with a guaranteed 5 meld slots, rewarding enough? what more incentive is there?

I don't like that this just turned into a "Why do you need raider gear?" thread myself. I thought really hard about including that section of my post. But I had hoped it wouldn't get such a response. Just once...

when content disparity is mentioned, of course it'll be a hot issue to tackle. People want to feel, and should honestly be rewarded for the effort put into a thing.
the issue with this point specifically is the value of the time spent on the thing itself, and the things being compared aren't equal.

[Magic-Mal]

strictly speaking to eureka gear... isn't having a weapon, with a guaranteed 5 meld slots, rewarding enough? what more incentive is there?

In my opinion, it's not even enough incentive to even try to get the weapon. It's the fact that it will be garbage next month. Random crafter weapons will outclass the relic.

[Theodric]

I don't like that this just turned into a "Why do you need raider gear?" thread myself. I thought really hard about including that section of my post. But I had hoped it wouldn't get such a response. Just once...

I wouldn't let it bother you too much. Your post was excellent and outlined a lot of concerns that I and others share. If people disagree on specific points, that's fine - but I do feel as if the people up in arms should take that particular discussion to a separate thread.

strictly speaking to eureka gear... isn't having a weapon, with a guaranteed 5 meld slots, rewarding enough? what more incentive is there?

It'd be a lot more valuable as an incentive if it were released earlier. As it stands, 4.4 is very likely to go live within a month. I think there should have been more cosmetic rewards on offer in Pagos such as a mount and more minions.

[WhyAmIHere]

In my opinion, it's not even enough incentive to even try to get the weapon. It's the fact that it will be garbage next month. Random crafter weapons will outclass the relic.

True, granted, but here's the rub: that's always the case. For the relic at least the hope is, at the end of the expansion, it'll be the best item to get... for the time. then 5.0 will come out and dungeon weapons will outshine the relic 100% of the time.

Gear is not static in this game, and thank the powers that be that that's the case.

EDIT::

It'd be a lot more valuable as an incentive if it were released earlier. As it stands, 4.4 is very likely to go live within a month. I think there should have been more cosmetic rewards on offer in Pagos such as a mount and more minions.

I am in agreement with you there. I, along with so many others, have remarked on this. Heck I even made a thread about it myself here about the delay of Pagos. Granted my thread was mostly cynical, but... plenty of people are with you on how bad Pagos was / is in it's entirety.

[Vaer]

People that don't do hard content can get comparable gear though or am I missing something here? I feel like this game is the most generous with gear. In other games if you don't raid you are permanently behind and never even get near raider gear ilvl.

People that don't do hard content can get good ilvl weapons and even armor. The HoH weapon is 365, not exactly hard to get. Before that if you just did Sigma normal you could get a 360 weapon after 7 weeks of the raid releasing, some raiders even use this path since they might not beat the 2nd turn soon enough and each week is only 1 person getting it. You would have to beat it on the 1st week, and it would take 8 weeks to get everyone one. One week further than it takes for people doing the normal token.

After they released the relic, they put the weapon upgrade on the vendor so now you can get a 370 weapon if you have the previous 360 weapon.

With the upgrade items being released in every catch up patch you can get comparable raid level armor without even going into the hard raid. Sure, you don't get it right away, but it's an incentive to do the raid when it comes out. Same reason the raid is now unlocked and Rido/tomes are still locked. Doesn't seem to make sense until you realize they want to get people to do the raid which is infinitely farmable max ilvl gear.

The high ilvl gear is in the raid to begin with because outside of the 1% world first people or 90% percentile players, everyone else needs it to complete the raid. So you beat the first and second turn, you get that gear, try the 3rd but you don't have enough DPS. Next week you come back, get more gear and keep going until you down the 3rd boss. Then you take the 3rd boss gear and try to beat the final one, and every week when it resets you get more gear to help, aka progression.

The relic has always been a pain to get and really most of the time it's been a glorified glamour piece since there were other ways to get a weapon that were easier and "good enough", even for people that don't do hard content.

They've tried this relic = raid weapon ilvl twice in the game's life (once in 2.0, and once in 3.0), and each time they reverted it. Dunno, they have an incentive problem since you can get comparable armor (other than dyeable but it feels like most people don't care) outside of the raid eventually, the story is already in normal. That leaves the early access to high ilvl gear/upgrade items, and the +5ilvl weapon/mount which you only get if you can beat the final boss.

[TaiyoShikasu]

ITT: People who don't understand MMO's are formulic out of neccessity.