So, how is Pagos?

[HyoMinPark]

Having difficulty understanding your point?

I think the point he's making is that, some (raiders, to be specific) can invest less time and effort into getting weapons that are better than the weapons from Pagos. And while this is typical, as the relic is never on par with Savage weapons until the end of an expansion, I do think it at least speaks volumes when Sigmascape Savage or UwU weapons are less tedious to obtain than their casual/non-raider equivalent.

My biggest gripe is that Pagos was introduced so late into 4.3, that it will have relevancy for less than a month before i380 weapons come out that will be even easier to obtain. Considering Patch 4.4 is due in September. And if they continue to delay further installments, the Relic will spend less time being relevant/on-par with Alphascape weapons compared to past relics. Personally, I can't seem to justify investing the time into Pagos when I can jump into a God Kefka and get better weapons for the jobs I play - especially since they are of little use to me.

At least in previous incarnations, relics could be decent for progression before eventually becoming BiS. But with how late they introduce them, they will struggle to serve this purpose save for those who are progressing in tiers relatively late.

Edit: on the BiS aspect, I seriously wonder if they will ever be BiS. There has been little indication of us being able to customize stats on them. And some (BRD, Healer relics) will struggle for that BiS slot even with 5 guaranteed melds unless the Alphascape weapons are absolutely trash stat-wise (for example, if the BRD Alphascape weapon is like Skill Speed/Determination).

[Zojha]

I think the point he's making is that, some (raiders, to be specific) can invest less time and effort into getting weapons that are better than the weapons from Pagos.

That, in fairness, is intentional.

The development team will no longer be using difficult content such as this, but in the event that they utilize content completion as a requirement it would be on the level of storyline primal battles or Alexander normal, and such. By doing so, even players who are not into clearing difficult content will have a goal and be able to earn powerful weapons if they put in the time, though they will be slower to reach this point than the top tier of players.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/276368

And looking glaring at Eureka, I think that idea has not fundamentally changed. Relics are pretty much meant to be pointless for people who both can and like to do challenging content.

Issues do however arise if you compare them to tome weapons, which need neither a considerable skill, nor time investment. When relics lag behind those is when it gets really awkward.

[HyoMinPark]

Issues do however arise if you compare them to tome weapons, which need neither a considerable skill, nor time investment. When relics lag behind those is when it gets really awkward.

In which case, they have. Some, in particular, are inferior to the current Tome weapons (WHM is a good example of this). Which have been available for far longer, and are now extremely easy to get, since the Solvent can be bought with Coins from the 24-Mans.

Relics were at least guaranteed BiS at the end of an expansion, and available to be useful during progression. As it stands now, I wonder if some will reach BiS status without the ability to customize their stats. All in all, I'd call SB's relics relatively lackluster.

The relic quest is a way for casual players to get a decent weapon, it's not about having the most "prestigious" weapon.

Casual players can already get decent weapons fairly easily and for far less effort than the Pagos relics, though, and have been able to for a while now. Some of which outright outclass the relics.

[Nestama]

Casual players can already get decent weapons fairly easily and for far less effort than the Pagos relics, though, and have been able to for a while now. Some of which outright outclass the relics.

Gonna piggy back off of your response to add in: If casual players are patient, they can just wait for the Ivalice raid to make it possible for them to get their Tome weapon. At the moment, upgrading the tome weapon (via Ivalice) is way easier than doing Pagos.