So, how is Pagos?

[Duskane]

That is terrible game design. Games you pay a subscription to are supposed to be fun, not "tolerable".

but the sensation of finishing a relic is nice and a good feeling
the opposite of "its not about the destination its the journey along the way"

[Ilan]

but the sensation of finishing a relic is nice and a good feeling
the opposite of "its not about the destination its the journey along the way"

But there is something wrong if the relic is a braindead grind without any form of diversity. Take a look at the old relics, they had some really tedious steps but they also had some steps that had diversity and weren't as annoying. This now is just tedious.

[Aikaal]

but the sensation of finishing a relic is nice and a good feeling
the opposite of "its not about the destination its the journey along the way"

Just to let you know on something. It took me about 80 hours of prog to clear Ultimate Refrain: Ultima. Now it takes me 1 hour to reclear to get a second weapon. It's probably faster to get 1 relic from Pagos than clearing UwU. But if you take the silly time it takes for me to reclear, on the long run. It'll take me less time for obtain, stronger, more prestigious weapons. Outside of the WHM relic, there's none that can be currently be used and you can be sure Alphascape savage WILL drop 405 iLevel weapons and your relic won't be 405 for a very long time.

[Duskane]

Just to let you know on something. It took me about 80 hours of prog to clear Ultimate Refrain: Ultima. Now it takes me 1 hour to reclear to get a second weapon. It's probably faster to get 1 relic from Pagos than clearing UwU. But if you take the silly time it takes for me to reclear, on the long run. It'll take me less time for obtain, stronger, more prestigious weapons. Outside of the WHM relic, there's none that can be currently be used and you can be sure Alphascape savage WILL drop 405 iLevel weapons and your relic won't be 405 for a very long time.

Having difficulty understanding your point?
because i don't care for these "prestigious weapons" since they are just ugly recolors in my eyes,I get weapons and gear because i like the look of them, i don't care for this rush to get high ilevel or best gear when 99.9% of the content can be done at a lower ilevels.
I really have no issue with my gear being outclassed at some point because its bound to happen anyway why stress about it.
I like the look of some of the Elemental weapons and i will get them regardless of the stats or Patch when there is better weapons

[Mirakumi]

I'm going to give my honest opinion now to pagos after getting 35.

I enjoyed it to a degree. Now there are some things I wished they changed.

Music, for example, is one of them. Giving us the same Eureka type music just made the experience a down watering curve. So the fact that I didn't like the train, brought back the undesirable feeling to play with the music.

I wish they gave us daily quests, things that would help progress besides the once a week dailies. That way people wouldn't get totally burnt out. Challenge log was great but it wasn't enough that people felt any change at lower levels. They needed something to get them out of the disparity of grinding.

Now for some insight, I love grinding and I loved the harsh world they set out. I liked the dangerous feel it made me feel like 1.0 again. So this thing made me very happy. It brought back some memories of dying and exploring and it was great. I'm glad they did it no matter how many people hate the death walk. I liked it. Loved the elementals that cast with healing aggro and I love the agro HP mobs. I liked the dragons that aggro to sound but even when I was walking they would aggro me so idkwtf but its a cool concept none the less.

What I didn't like about the grinding that in 11 you could still grind and chat. In 14 your powering through rotations in silence just trying to hit a chain. You have to be on top of your shit to get to 30. I feel that is something they majorly need to change. At least so you can enjoy to grind and joke. More time for chains so it's not a total disparity or lower HP on monsters a bit more - take your pick. (People were complaining about Carpal Tunnel for goodness sakes!) In 11 you had magic bursts etc so chaining would be easier - this isn't the case here so SE needs to elevate it so it is not so mind numbing of a button-bashing silence through each run. This really would have changed the feel a lot.

Also please change the music again.

NMs should have a higher spawn rate. Not like overtly so but I've been in an instance fresh through the whole nine yards and no NM spawn makes you feel kind of - slap in the face. Especially so when all that grinding with no pause and chatter. It's just not good. It really isn't. So it needs to be changed if it already hasn't.

I do again like Pagos as terms of dangerous and less train - but I still feel like they shouldn't have made mounts so hard to gain.

I have been however at 35 - with my lowbie friend at 30. He does gain 2k exp on crabs with me and another 35 power leveling him. You might say that's not much but considering how fast we killed and how much chain 30 we gained it was not a steep slope. Much better in the end so there is not loss hope for those trapped on lower stuff. Find your 35 friend - and ask them to help you until SE sorts the mess out.

[Ilan]

I have been however at 35 - with my lowbie friend at 30. He does gain 2k exp on crabs with me and another 35 power leveling him. You might say that's not much but considering how fast we killed and how much chain 30 we gained it was not a steep slope. Much better in the end so there is not loss hope for those trapped on lower stuff. Find your 35 friend - and ask them to help you until SE sorts the mess out.

Ehm...That works with 5 Level difference and thats all. If i get the person i usualy play with i get exactly 0 exp because i'm 22 and she is 34. So its not done with "Find your 35 friend..."
Also with 30 it is not a problem to find a party to grind your brain out it is a problem for the ones who are under 25. They have to play mostly alone and that should not be.

[HyoMinPark]

Having difficulty understanding your point?

I think the point he's making is that, some (raiders, to be specific) can invest less time and effort into getting weapons that are better than the weapons from Pagos. And while this is typical, as the relic is never on par with Savage weapons until the end of an expansion, I do think it at least speaks volumes when Sigmascape Savage or UwU weapons are less tedious to obtain than their casual/non-raider equivalent.

My biggest gripe is that Pagos was introduced so late into 4.3, that it will have relevancy for less than a month before i380 weapons come out that will be even easier to obtain. Considering Patch 4.4 is due in September. And if they continue to delay further installments, the Relic will spend less time being relevant/on-par with Alphascape weapons compared to past relics. Personally, I can't seem to justify investing the time into Pagos when I can jump into a God Kefka and get better weapons for the jobs I play - especially since they are of little use to me.

At least in previous incarnations, relics could be decent for progression before eventually becoming BiS. But with how late they introduce them, they will struggle to serve this purpose save for those who are progressing in tiers relatively late.

Edit: on the BiS aspect, I seriously wonder if they will ever be BiS. There has been little indication of us being able to customize stats on them. And some (BRD, Healer relics) will struggle for that BiS slot even with 5 guaranteed melds unless the Alphascape weapons are absolutely trash stat-wise (for example, if the BRD Alphascape weapon is like Skill Speed/Determination).

[Zojha]

I think the point he's making is that, some (raiders, to be specific) can invest less time and effort into getting weapons that are better than the weapons from Pagos.

That, in fairness, is intentional.

The development team will no longer be using difficult content such as this, but in the event that they utilize content completion as a requirement it would be on the level of storyline primal battles or Alexander normal, and such. By doing so, even players who are not into clearing difficult content will have a goal and be able to earn powerful weapons if they put in the time, though they will be slower to reach this point than the top tier of players.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/276368

And looking glaring at Eureka, I think that idea has not fundamentally changed. Relics are pretty much meant to be pointless for people who both can and like to do challenging content.

Issues do however arise if you compare them to tome weapons, which need neither a considerable skill, nor time investment. When relics lag behind those is when it gets really awkward.

[HyoMinPark]

Issues do however arise if you compare them to tome weapons, which need neither a considerable skill, nor time investment. When relics lag behind those is when it gets really awkward.

In which case, they have. Some, in particular, are inferior to the current Tome weapons (WHM is a good example of this). Which have been available for far longer, and are now extremely easy to get, since the Solvent can be bought with Coins from the 24-Mans.

Relics were at least guaranteed BiS at the end of an expansion, and available to be useful during progression. As it stands now, I wonder if some will reach BiS status without the ability to customize their stats. All in all, I'd call SB's relics relatively lackluster.

The relic quest is a way for casual players to get a decent weapon, it's not about having the most "prestigious" weapon.

Casual players can already get decent weapons fairly easily and for far less effort than the Pagos relics, though, and have been able to for a while now. Some of which outright outclass the relics.

[Nestama]

Casual players can already get decent weapons fairly easily and for far less effort than the Pagos relics, though, and have been able to for a while now. Some of which outright outclass the relics.

Gonna piggy back off of your response to add in: If casual players are patient, they can just wait for the Ivalice raid to make it possible for them to get their Tome weapon. At the moment, upgrading the tome weapon (via Ivalice) is way easier than doing Pagos.