“non-essential” premium content, does SE want this kind of reputation if it continue?

[Skivvy]

sry but that line was crossed by FFXI, one of the reason I didn't choose FFXI as my first mmo was because char slots were an extra pay on the account.
As such I don't even know what ppl are talking about when speaking about slippery slope. This is literally doing nothing different from SE MO, which if you were interested about this stuff you would know plently beforehand

If you want to make your point valid, using misleading ways to present it or even an exaggeration or doomsaying won't really help you, actually it'll make you an untrusthworthy narrator which will not help you at all

You wouldn't play XI because they would sell you additional (optional) character slots on an account, but you play XIV where they will sell you additional (optional) character slots on an account? I'm not quite following.

I know you were trying to make some point with this in the other thread as well, but XIV's cash shop history and future is vastly different from XI where they will only sell you additional alts (like XIV does), and 2 additional gear storage bags.

Looking strictly at XIV's cash shop, you can see the progression over the years. Started as cosmetic only. Added retainers. Added job-boosters. Started making items single-character only vs. account wide. Yes, it's been a fairly slow progression, but they are continuing to test the waters to see what they can get away with in the cash shop.


Also, wtf people. First I'm a troll, now I'm setting myself up as an 'untrustworthy narrator'. I'm not talking crazy things here, but sharing another side of the argument.

[ManuelBravo]

sry but that line was crossed by FFXI, one of the reason I didn't choose FFXI as my first mmo was because char slots were an extra pay on the account.
As such I don't even know what ppl are talking about when speaking about slippery slope. This is literally doing nothing different from SE MO, which if you were interested about this stuff you would know plently beforehand

If you want to make your point valid, using misleading ways to present it or even an exaggeration or doomsaying won't really help you, actually it'll make you an untrusthworthy narrator which will not help you at all

You mean for alternate slots? wow a $1 -.- hmmm yeah that will really break people. Back then the game had a fun challange, yet most players were just pricks. I use to dual box with a healer just to do my relics back then. Before they turned it into a pretty much solo game,based on feed back by players by the way. SE had that option and if you think about it the retainer system is currently similar to FFXI additional alternate that most used for storage space. In a way people with common sense can pin point that yes this has been going around not just with FF.

[Skivvy]

On 'playable content' like jobs being offered on Mogstation, if we think about it we're already buying them in a $60 expansion every 2 years? I don't see why SE would take the less palatable route and put them in cash shops ala some F2P monetization models without paid ex-pacs. Just time it with the ex-pacs and it goes down much better with the community.

I don't think anyone has said that they think SE will add jobs to the Mogstation in the future. It was more idle musing over the fact that if SE did end up doing something crazy like that, they would still have defenders.

[Granyala]

Retainers are still not needed, the boost is also no essential thing (even if its shit), but classes belong into the game. Are you trying to troll on purpose or do you just not understand the difference between essential things and stuff that is just nice to have?

The one not understanding is you, actually.

No firm would ever be so stupid as to put ESSENTIALS of a subscription game into a MT store. That is not what the MT are about in this case. It's all about the "nice to haves" that make people shell out more money because they know, should they ever put essentials in there, their subscription model would be dead and they would have a F2P game on their hands.

So yeah, Glamors & dyes, mounts, retainers, level skip potions, renames, server transfers all fit the bill quite nicely.
Hell, they could even sell tomestone caps and raid loot (mounts etc, gear would be somewhat problematic b/c selling it would shorten the lifespan of the content), it still would not be considered "essential" because the same loot is available ingame.
It's just a shortcut.

People are definitely right when they say: selling retainers (bag space) and leveling potions is essentially opening Pandoras Box.

[Remedi]

You wouldn't play XI because they would sell you additional (optional) character slots on an account, but you play XIV where they will sell you additional (optional) character slots on an account? I'm not quite following.

I know you were trying to make some point with this in the other thread as well, but XIV's cash shop history and future is vastly different from XI where they will only sell you additional alts (like XIV does), and 2 additional gear storage bags.

Looking strictly at XIV's cash shop, you can see the progression over the years. Started as cosmetic only. Added retainers. Added job-boosters. Started making items single-character only vs. account wide. Yes, it's been a fairly slow progression, but they are continuing to test the waters to see what they can get away with in the cash shop.


Also, wtf people. First I'm a troll, now I'm setting myself up as an 'untrustworthy narrator'. I'm not talking crazy things here, but sharing another side of the argument.

You are wrong on the cash shop, the extra retainers were the first extra service added afaik, in fact they aren't even on the cashs shop,
Same with shared and one player only items. they were all there

So yes, you are a untruysthorthy narrator because you are not saying how things really went to foster a slippery slope agenda or how things for the worse when they really aren't. The only real slippery slope I'll concede is the skip potions WHICH BTW reported to have poor sales and lead Yoshida to say in the latest LL that they are going to prune or look at MSQ (well perhaps not exactly because of it but a good chance it helped).
Also SE has told us that profits of mogstation would be used to further improve servers, which I admit you need to believe what they said and they might aswell lie to us, but at that point you need to prove that they are spending the money in other ways, because everything else becomes just a rumor.

as for the FFXI part.
If you consider storage to be a worse offender than a character slot I don't know what to say, I'll say that it was more than 15 years ago and there were other reasons for me not to play FFXI, but admittedly the fact that I could have mutliple characters without an extra pay was an enticing prospect that WoW had

People are definitely right when they say: selling retainers (bag space) and leveling potions is essentially opening Pandoras Box.

The point I'm trying to make however is that the pandora's box was opened 15+ years ago.
Saying that this is a new low for SE. after the extra service for FFXI and especially after All The Bravest is not right.

[Skivvy]

You are wrong on the cash shop, the extra retainers were the first extra service added afaik, in fact they aren't even on the cashs shop,
Same with shared and one player only items. they were all there

If I was mistaken about retainers coming before the full cash shop, then thank you for correcting that. However, lets not be pedantic on the verbiage regarding cash shop / paid retainers. I get that it's easier to attack someone's choice of words vs. the point, but lets try and avoid that. And of course there were items before that were for single-character use. With that said, many types of items that were historically account-wide are now coming to us as single-character only. Even the physical items are starting to have their bonus in-game item released as single-character only.

So yes, you are a untruysthorthy narrator because you are not saying how things really went to foster a slippery slope agenda or how things for the worse when they really aren't.

My only mistake so far seems to be mixing up the release order of paid retainers and the full cash shop. And perhaps using "cash shop" as a catch-all for paid in-game services and items that people can purchase from the Mogstation.

The only real slippery slope I'll concede is the skip potions WHICH BTW reported to have poor sales and lead Yoshida to say in the latest LL that they are going to prune or look at MSQ (well perhaps not exactly because of it but a good chance it helped).

So you concur there is a slippery slope. We just disagree on how greased up it is.

Also SE has told us that profits of mogstation would be used to further improve servers, which I admit you need to believe what they said and they might aswell lie to us, but at that point you need to prove that they are spending the money in other ways, because everything else becomes just a rumor.

Not sure why this is coming up. I have no issues with a company making money. They can do with it as they please. However, it is also there job to ensure that their customers feel that they are getting the best bang for their buck. Some people are currently fine with how SE is handling this, others are not.

as for the FFXI part.
If you consider storage to be a worse offender than a character slot I don't know what to say, I'll say that it was more than 15 years ago and there were other reasons for me not to play FFXI, but admittedly the fact that I could have mutliple characters without an extra pay was an enticing prospect that WoW had.

I never said that I considered storage to be worse than a character slot. XI allows you to buy additional character slots. XIV lets you buy additional character slots. XI lets you buy 2 gear-only storage bags, XIV lets you buy 9(I think?) additional retainers - which have far more use than just storage. I don't get why you're hung up on XI in this conversation. Yes, they had, and have, a couple of paid features, but lets not pretend it's anywhere close to being on par with XIV and their Mogstation* purchase options.

[Remedi]

No as said there's not a slippery slope. Saying that there is is doomsayng, The reason why FFXI didn't had a cashshop is because the times weren't right if FFXI were to launch on this day and age it'll have a cash shop, thinking otherwise is delusional, as Granyala said Blizzard paved the way(both cash shop AND level boost btw).

Frankly if you are fine with how the company are making money I don't understand your point at all, you think that you are not getting your back because of some comsetics in the shop or you are not getting your buck because of the retainers? I don't understand, I though you were not happy for the company beign greedy and simply hoarding the money to other projects. So what's your point actually? I would agree if they never tried to increase inventory space but they did. which imho lead to the various problems with the instance servers on each patch release so far.

Also fyi they addressed why they cannot give account wide codes, I think it's BS but I knoe jackshit about it so I won't comment much on it.

Again doomsayers and mislead won't help us nowhere. Actions are more worth. And they seems to listen to actions since the potion incident.

XI allows you to buy additional character slots. XIV lets you buy additional character slots

Please don't tell me you are referring to the begginer sub to normal sub in this

You mean for alternate slots? wow a $1 -.- hmmm yeah that will really break people. Back then the game had a fun challange, yet most players were just pricks. I use to dual box with a healer just to do my relics back then. Before they turned it into a pretty much solo game,based on feed back by players by the way. SE had that option and if you think about it the retainer system is currently similar to FFXI additional alternate that most used for storage space. In a way people with common sense can pin point that yes this has been going around not just with FF.

Plenty of other reasons why I made that choice, one of which was my not understanding the fact that u could have more than 1 job on a single character, so I had planned like 3 characters, but I don'ìt fault the game now for my failing ofc. Alas in the end was a friend choosing for me when he gifted me a copy of WoW.
But imho for the game it was extra paied extra char slots in my opinion are worse than retainers, which is why frankly for me SE is not really reaching any low or pandora's box, this is what they've been done for years, but nobody cared, now ppl do for some reasons. Why what was acceptable back then now it's the worst crime?

[ManuelBravo]

Plenty of other reasons why I made that choice, one of which was my not understanding the fact that u could have more than 1 job on a single character, so I had planned like 3 characters, but I don'ìt fault the game now for my failing ofc. Alas in the end was a friend choosing for me when he gifted me a copy of WoW.
But imho for the game it was extra paied extra char slots in my opinion are worse than retainers, which is why frankly for me SE is not really reaching any low or pandora's box, this is what they've been done for years, but nobody cared, now ppl do for some reasons. Why what was acceptable back then now it's the worst crime?

Every company has a nice disclosure that is called Terms of Use. Where they disclose information. As a consumer it is our responsibility to do the research before hand. Lets face the facts most people don't and later complain it's not fair. Consumers don't have to play the game, however they do have the option. They have something call common sense where a person chooses to pay based on the need that they have. Just like any other game it warns you, it has a nice currency symbol that you will be charged. SE is in it for the money and to be honest based on the entertainment value. As a consumer I am aware of how it would affect me economically. People who usually complain are either ignorant to these facts.

As I had mentioned before everything is a choice, no matter what company it is, one way or another it is just responding to the supply and demand of services and goods that the consumers are requesting. There are worst games out there that seem way more underhanded. Take phone apps, people can micro pay for in game currency to take advantage, no different than mogstation. People are just lazy to do the hard work, look for things to speed up or skip their wait times, and then complain it's a rip of or fraud. Lets face it the world is already dumb enough, so lets not add to it. - Foamy

[Granyala]

Saying that this is a new low for SE. after the extra service for FFXI and especially after All The Bravest is not right.

True, that would be DeusEX "Mankind Divided"s microtransactions.

[Remedi]

True, that would be DeusEX "Mankind Divided"s microtransactions.

Boy if those MTs made me angry, especially since they were not even needed