Letter to MR Yoshi: Why parses system is destroying the ffxiv world.

[Vstarstruck]

Oh there is. I'm not going to pretend it doesn't exist.

But it's not rampant like the doomsayers claim it will be if it's allowed. WoW does allow it, and it's not nearly as common as people think it'll be if it's allowed here.

Why do you think there is doomsayers? Why? Because there is someone leading the direction of this game saying "No parses because it makes people toxic" I was only saying something to think about because the only way to get public wide parses is to show him why those arguments are weak. So when I said what you posted before to me, is because of this, you never addressed the point I was trying to get at.

How much you want to bet, people follow his word on the "tell issues while in duty" nonsense? that is a very skewed personal opinion and i seen literally ZERO drama based on having the ability to freely send tells in CRZ or inside of dungeon instances to your other members. So I need to question why these limited personal views are pushed on this game, all this micromanaging the playerbase (something I flat out asked before here that no one responded to) where is that line where the development team is crossing over micromanaging too much? for me it is the following:

parses: if someone is going to prase and defamatory people based on them, they are going to do so regardless of an official one or not, that was my point in my MSQ example.
MSQ forced CS: People can make their own parties, teach people how make PFs and make their own parties, not throw this micromanage change that everyone has to follow in every situation (at least if we build our own parties let us bypass that uncalled for change)
Removal of chat in feast: We have a right to use communication tools in a communication based environment.
No tells in duty/very restrictive tells in CRZ: No reason for this, treat people like people, not children.

When you post here, you need to word them in such a way why it would be a good thing to have parses in this game like you would be talking to the development team or yoshi-p. Trying to nitpick some small detail in what someone says is not going to help your goal. In other words, trying to debate me directly, is not doing anything. I hope this clears up what I really meant and what I was actually trying to do, you where way off the point of understanding what I was trying to do.

Now, going back to what I said earlier, we REALLY REALLY need some ideas to tell them on how GMs should respond to people so they feel better about the situation (I/e GM policy adjustments) any ideas on this?

[Genoreaper]

From what I've seen there are two types of people on this thread, those who want to grow as players using actual effective tools, the same tools that built the foundation for every rotation people use and claim is fine enough of just stuck to. Which wouldn't exist without pc players using parsers in the first place.

And those who fear their numbers becoming public, the only reason someone would fear their own numbers being shown which begs the question of why? Are you one of the " you don't pay my sub, I'll play ice mage if I want" are you willingly only trying the basic rotation whIle watching netflix, the ones relying on the group to carry you through content? There is no rEason you should object to me seeing my OWN numbers.

If you barely want to contribute, and only care about your gaming experience why are you on an mmo. Might I remind you, you don't pay my sub, you have zero right to squander my play time due to the fact you clearly dont want to play the game as intended.

Ironically most of the toxicity has come from those crying about a parser being implemented. Those in favor have said multiple times they could care less to see your numbers, they would be happy only knowing their own

[Genoreaper]

It's crazy that the game hinges on damage and dps, even for tanks and healers yet we have to fly blind. The numbers show up on contact yet we have zero ways to use them on console. If stone, sea, and sky rotation memory is all that matters might as well remove floating damage numbers and just play completely blind and watch animations, since without a parser they mean literally nothing.

[KaivaC]

From what I've seen there are two types of people on this thread, those who want to grow as players using actual effective tools, the same tools that built the foundation for every rotation people use and claim is fine enough of just stuck to. Which wouldn't exist without pc players using parsers in the first place.

And those who fear their numbers becoming public, the only reason someone would fear their own numbers being shown which begs the question of why? Are you one of the " you don't pay my sub, I'll play ice mage if I want" are you willingly only trying the basic rotation whIle watching netflix, the ones relying on the group to carry you through content? There is no rEason you should object to me seeing my OWN numbers.

If you barely want to contribute, and only care about your gaming experience why are you on an mmo. Might I remind you, you don't pay my sub, you have zero right to squander my play time due to the fact you clearly dont want to play the game as intended.

Ironically most of the toxicity has come from those crying about a parser being implemented. Those in favor have said multiple times they could care less to see your numbers, they would be happy only knowing their own

Now...while I am all for parsers and all that jazz, let's not get carried away and classify everyone who hides their numbers as bad, toxic, etc. There are plenty of people who do have good reasons for not wanting their logs to be public, stigmatism aside. The system should be opt-in, rather than opt-out. There could be a few raiders now completely unaware that they have logs up - and some may get kicked, not knowing that they have bad logs. Obviously this is very few and far in between, but I would like to throw up some caution flags about categorizing folks who do choose to hide their logs.

[Shurrikhan]

You are missing the point, I am not defending SE at all. I was giving you something to think about on WHY SE does not want parses. You are missing my point completely. Punishing them does not reverse or do anything to the victim. Some most likely unsub over it feeling the community is too toxic for them. I get the feeling SE wants to put the least amount of money in this game as possible while getting most they can get out of it. If this is the case, it is simpler, cheaper, say no parses.

Since they can't reimburse or try to reinsure something will be done, SE prob fears it will make some people just quit and unsub. givin some of the threads here on the MSQ stuff, I wouldn't be shocked if some did unsub over stuff like this. So to help prevent that, "no parses " is easier.

But it's not. When the problems raising concern is the heat of the confrontations themselves, policing is always more expensive than not policing. The task itself costs, and its only result is to create the same situations you are allegedly trying to mitigate.

To police for parsing is to police something which is not visible, and for which all reports are reliant first on hearsay. It would be like trying to punish someone for flicking their finished cigarette into the road, in a time somehow before sufficient camera evidence. If they were audibly recorded yelling out that yes, they were littering, then that's that (although even that could be stated ironically). But anything short of such is a nightmare to try to act upon.

Why would any company do that to themselves?

The more XIV takes ownership of essential learning tools, the less the players are reliant upon third-party tools, which have possible benefits far beyond merely parsing that SE cannot necessarily account for (e.g. those things that one could honestly call cheating or would reduce the time for raids to clear even the mechanics of a given raid -- as per DBM and Big Whigs in WoW) and SE must otherwise constantly provide controlled breaks in their code to prevent, increasing awkward delays and inefficiencies in an already notorious webcode.

Why wouldn't SE take ownership of the only thing that's managed to provide significant support to player learning inside their game?

Yes, players could still access the theorycrafted rotations available online. They could still access class guides. But they can scarcely test things -- really test things -- for themselves without such a tool, let alone do so through an in-game method of instantaneous and continuous feedback. That is hugely valuable. You have a resource which, once integrated, is both part of the ingame experience and adds a near-endless level of depth, self-competition, and "minigame-ness" to the game.

Consider what would be needed to provide even half that benefit:

• You'd need encounters difficult enough to enforce learning... costing you maybe a twelfth of your playerbase in the process if not properly supported beforehand...
• Near-mandatory guildhest-style learning exercises, each likely crafted with care, for solo and group contexts...
• Likely somewhat intrusive tips and ingame guides, each again likely crafted with care...
• And, quite likely, performance indexes that likely already require the framework of such a parser by which to compare your past and current progress (likely to others' as well)...

That's not to say that much of those things wouldn't be worth having, given the time, but despite the far greater effort required, they are unlikely even to produce nearly as great of benefits. So again:

Why would SE set themselves in the awkward and ambiguous position of policing against the one thing noticeably supporting their playerbase's breadth at higher limits of content (Ex Primals and upward) through in-game and often intrinsically entertaining means? Why wouldn't they claim it for themselves by doing much the same, and slightly better, such that players don't need that gateway drug, so to speak, cutting off most of the monetary support for truly undesirable third-party advantageous programs? (Funny thought: Nude mods, of course, won't be affected by literally anything else in the realm of 3rd party business, except perhaps through fewer visitors to the same mod sites that may host them...)

[Awha]

I do feel if they were opt-in instead of out it would ease the minds of many players. Sure as hell would have saved our FC some drama with members that had less then stellar logs due to certain limitations on their end. Does not brother us, but it sure as hell did bother other players.

[Sigma-Astra]

No tells in duty/very restrictive tells in CRZ: No reason for this, treat people like people, not children.

Players themselves cannot send tells while in a duty, but if you put a support ticket in, it never fails that a GM in-game will decide that they want to talk with you while you're in an actual duty. Never fails for me, ever.

[Vstarstruck]

Players themselves cannot send tells while in a duty, but if you put a support ticket in, it never fails that a GM in-game will decide that they want to talk with you while you're in an actual duty. Never fails for me, ever.

wow reference. I do admit I forget if you can send tells while in instance to the outside, but you can send tells to people in your party and I found that insanely helpful at times and missed that in this game at day 1. Also CRZ refers to wow's cross relm zone, basically you are free to send tells to other people in the open world without all the friendliest workarounds and restrictions in this game (like you can only do it if the person made a pf.. or something.) Also with real id, you are not restricted to realm (data center) when it comes to cross world communication.

Some update to FFXIV, forgot what, stopped ctrl R to work to gms while in duty in ffxiv, it is really annoying to have to click their name to send a tell back as you are trying to do other things with your mouse. I am so sick of the tell blocking in duties in this game and how it bugs trying to talk to gms.

In the end I do not get it, when you compare features of other MMO's to this one, this one feels like it is an indie company it is so underfunded.

I forgot this at the time of writing but FFXIV actually requires admin privileges before it can download a patch. So I guess by the golden Kisai standard, the game we're all subbed to is now an unsafe tool, right?

no idea, I can't even read their posts at times, gives me headaches from the confusion. its weird how someone can sound so confidant while not knowing what they talk about.

[Zephanoa]

Lort, this thread should have been locked already. Parses aren't inherently evil and they are a great tool to better yourself. The problem is that it should have API back end so that people can make something tailored to the game that works. Some of the specific common tools out there are good to look at your stats with but are terribly made. This is especially true for console users. My opinion is if you have DPS checks then you should have DPS calculators. Stone Sky Sea was a nice addition to the game but does -not- cut it. Ther are always people who are terrible and will waive around numbers in people's faces. That is called harassment and should be bannable. Honestly that's all it comes down to... don't be a dirt bag to other people. Offer advice (don't force advice) and give people the ability to grow on their own.

[Naryoril]

All i can say on this topic is, that the community around more difficult content has become much more toxic with the emergence and spreading of parsers. It might be coincidence, maybe it was just that the popularity the game was gaining by then attracted those people, but it might also be due to parsers. Probably both.

Edit: It's part of the reason why i stopped doing current savage/extreme content, it was way more fun to me before people started using parsers due to a much more friendly community.