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  1. #1
    Player
    SleepyNeko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    23
    Character
    Chocola Puddin
    World
    Typhon
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70

    DPS Enmity controls

    I've been tanking in DPS stance for awhile now and its been fine most of the time, even with maxed gear dps. But I have noticed a trend that some classes seems to always push the enmity forcing me to DA Power Slash every now and then.

    Of the classes I've seen, one of the main offenders is SAM. Did they not recently get a new tool for enmity control? Not sure if its effective enough for them.

    Are there any other DPS classes I should watch out for when it comes to enmity? Every now and then I see a DPS pretty much on my tail at around 40% below boss HP and I'm not sure if its them not using their enmity skills or just that they are the dps god.

    I personally play MNK and NIN and I don't see any issues with MNK with the new enmity drop, but most of the time this happens is with BRD/RDM/BLM but don't they have the best enmity drops in the game?
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    XykeVayaris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    54
    Character
    Xyke Vayaris
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    Currently all the classes sans NIN has an instant enmity dump. NIN can transfer their aggro to another member in their party but that shouldn't be too much of a problem for them lacking an enmity dump. If you are actually having trouble keeping aggro it's either that your gear isn't up to par (I doubt), the DPS is doing crazy high damage or DPS isn't using aggro management. If it's the third, feel free to help them drop aggro :>
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Kurando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    549
    Character
    Kurando Strife
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 70
    Enmity is often an problem for burst jobs like SAM, RDM and BLM as they can easily creep up the aggro ladder with their damage output. Of course it's also possible some jobs are more geared than the main tank therefore closing the gap even more in terms of who's next for aggro, it's quite possible to see WHMs or MCHs second in the list a number of times. Every job (non tanks) do have access to emnity reducing skills though, with some built in to other actions, but the main ones come from cross role and not everyone takes them or don't want to use them for aggro proposes (i.e. saving Lucid for MP or Tactician for TP etc).

    We also need to remember that it is the priority of the tank to keep aggro and they have the permanent tools to do this with their tank stance and emnity increasing actions. Other roles however have to deal with often lengthly cooldowns to reduce any emnity that they may have, and at that point if they are using everything available to them and the tank is still having issues stabilising aggro then that's really a problem the tank needs to look at rather than the rest of the party.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    HyoMinPark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    The Lavender Beds’ God-Tier Medium
    Posts
    2,961
    Character
    Hyomin Park
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 70
    Keep in mind that if you are ever matched up with players that have better gear than you, enmity can become an issue and you may have to squeeze in either more aggro combos throughout a fight, or quickly swap into tank stance if you absolutely cannot keep hate off of DPS that are actively rotating their enmity management tools. If they are not rotating their enmity management, then they are at fault for not keeping an eye on their aggro if they rip hate from you.

    That being said, with regards to these jobs’ enmity management—

    BRD: BRD main, here. O/ We have two enmity dumps (Refresh and Tactician), meaning our enmity is halved upon usage, but we continue to generate it at the same rate afterwards. The most optimal opener for BRD (for raids/bosses) requires us to use one pre-pull to extend Foe Requiem (Refresh) for more party damage output, so we have Tactician only after that. Proper usage of the latter would be it after our opener resolves (~25 seconds in), but we will still be on the cusp of ripping hate if we have a high critical hit rate, and we got a lot of procs during our opener until then.

    BRD has some of the highest burst inside its opener out of all the DPS, so an unprepared tank can lose aggro to them. I have ripped off of a geared tank before my opener was even finished just due to back-to-back procs, hit Tactician to dump it, and then after my opener resolves, I’m back at 2nd highest enmity again. Their dumps are not efficient enough for a job that has burst phases every 80 seconds for 20 seconds, in my opinion; Diversion would suit them far better.

    If we’re talking about dungeons, Tactician could be down for TP regen after AOEing during a large pull. Refresh should generally be up unless the healer is struggling to heal, or they got AOE-happy. Just keep in mind that both of these have support tied to them (MP/TP regeneration), so if things have gone south and someone needs TP, or the healers need MP, they may not be available for enmity dumping when you need them to be. Generally speaking though, if you are doing all you can to manage hate, and they are actively rotating their dumps, you should not have too many issues unless your gear discrepancy is large. Just know that it’s not abnormal to see a decent BRD on your tail most of the times.


    RDM: RDM’s burst is primarily in their first couple of GCDs, where they weave in Flèche and Contre Sixte. However, they should be using Diversion in any pre-pull situations, so enmity becomes a non-issue, since Diversion is stupidly good now (90% enmity generation reduction for 30 seconds). They also have Lucid Dreaming to dump their enmity later on after any burst they may have, if enmity management is needed.


    BLM: They have access to both an enmity queller (Diversion) and an enmity dump (Lucid Dreaming) like RDM does. However, I do not know enough about a BLM’s rotation to know when they are bursting for (I do know they burst fairly high though, and have a very high damage sustain). Assuming they are using Diversion in their opener, you should not have any enmity problems there. Later on, though, I’m assuming they should be rotating both according to Ley Lines windows and/or other periods where they would have a lot of damage going out. They have a high sustain though, so they will start to catch you as the fight progresses between enmity management.


    SAM: These dudes should be using Diversion. There is no excuse for them not to be actively rotating it, as it’s easily weavable and a god-tier enmity management tool. Their new enmity management tool is on Merciful Eye, which requires Third Eye to proc in order to use it...which in turn requires the SAM to take damage. (Both new enmity tools for MNK/SAM are also DPS losses, as Chakra stacks could be used on Forbidden Chakra over Purification, and Third Eye procs on Seigan.)


    MNK can fall in with BRD and BLM that they have really high burst, and, like BLM, they have a really high sustain. It’s not surprising to see them also catching you as the fight drags on.


    Overall, as I said, if people are actively rotating their enmity management tools, it may just be a gear discrepancy between yourself and the other DPS causing them to start catching you halfway through a fight. I would not be surprised, though, if some were not using their enmity management tools. That’s not an uncommon occurrence when you’re in Duty Finder.
    (1)

    Bard | Red Mage | Triple-Threat Healer

    Feel free to add me on Discord if you want a friend or just someone to talk to: Hyomin Park#0055
    Signature was made using: http://ff14card.tank.jp ; Credits to the creator!

  5. #5
    Player
    Duskane's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    274
    Character
    Dusk Himmel
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 70
    DPS should be aware of there aggro and be using Diversion and there aggro cutter when needed
    (1)
    Last edited by Duskane; 07-11-2018 at 05:58 PM. Reason: wrong info

  6. #6
    Player
    HyoMinPark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    The Lavender Beds’ God-Tier Medium
    Posts
    2,961
    Character
    Hyomin Park
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskane View Post
    bit of a DRK issue aswell
    Since its enmity kit isn't as good as other tanks since DP isnt worth it,
    So your pretty much stuck with DA+Plunge and throwing out a Power slash on some occasions .

    DPS should be aware of there aggro and be using Diversion and there aggro cutter when needed
    Since the Patch 4.3 changes, this is no longer the case. DRK is a god in terms of aggro generation now, and Dark Passenger is used in the opener.
    (2)

    Bard | Red Mage | Triple-Threat Healer

    Feel free to add me on Discord if you want a friend or just someone to talk to: Hyomin Park#0055
    Signature was made using: http://ff14card.tank.jp ; Credits to the creator!

  7. #7
    Player
    Megguido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    80
    Character
    Minati Illu
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskane View Post
    bit of a DRK issue aswell
    Since its enmity kit isn't as good as other tanks since DP isnt worth it,
    So your pretty much stuck with DA+Plunge and throwing out a Power slash on some occasions .

    DPS should be aware of there aggro and be using Diversion and there aggro cutter when needed
    I laughed a little at "DRK enmity kit isn't as good since DP isn't worth it".

    1) A Grit - Dark Arts - Power Slash is a melee LB3 worth of aggro (around 250k - 300k "aggro" damage). Sure you lose a little bit of damage at the start compared to a WAR, but the aggro lead is much bigger (damage loss on pull is smaller on DRK than on PLD, if the PLD pulls with Shield Oath).
    2) People aren't applying slashing debuff on the very first GCD. And you can use Dark Arts Dark Passenger on the first or second GCD for an even stronger aggro lead (which isn't even a loss since DP does as much damage a a DA without slashing).
    3) DA Plunge aggro is much smaller than DA DP.
    4) People should use Diversion either on cooldown or synced to their burst phases. But I agree, enmity is a group effort, and DPS should be aware of that.

    Basically, a Grit - DA PS opener followed by some shirks from the OT and you're guaranteed to never lose hate with a DRK, even if the WHM goes wild.
    (0)
    Last edited by Megguido; 07-11-2018 at 05:34 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Duskane's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    274
    Character
    Dusk Himmel
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Megguido View Post
    I laughed a little
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Naryoril's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    128
    Character
    Y'sira Fhela
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    I know it's because you want to maximize DPS, but there is quite some irony in a tank who isn't using tank stance or his enmity combo complaining about others not using their enmity tools...
    (11)

  10. #10
    Player
    Maero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    3,986
    Character
    I'shtola Maqa
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 70
    I always use diversion pre-pull and if start to get agro later on while diversion is on cd must resort to using Lucid Dreaming. All parties have to do their part really
    (0)

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