Please fix tank accessories already, it's been 3 patches

[Aana]

Edit: Seems Whiskey beat me to some of this already.

using your ratio, i370 gear according to you will require 81 Strength before strength melding to achieve the same equity for Strength as other classes do their primary stat.

This is an increase of 37 strength per piece, multiplied by 5 is 185.
Thus crafting using your formula is 21 per piece, multiplied by 5 is 105

The weight of items is from highest to least on left side, Weapon, Armor/Legs, Helm/Boots/Gloves, Belt, so it is only fair we shift a proportional amount.

Using Weapon as 1.0, the chest/legs are .907, H/B/G are .557, and Belt is .419
Doing math to find these values

The division looks a little like

Raid
Weapon 39
A/L: 34 x 2
H/G/B: 21 x 3
Belt: 15

Crafted
Weapon: 23
A/L: 19 x 2
H/G/B: 12 x 3
Belt: 8

Crafted Vs Raid minus this shift
A/L: 274 vs 288
H/G/B: 168 vs 177
Belt: 127 vs 130
Weapon omitted cuz weapon damage

Raid edges out, barely, and then Anemos comes in and kicks Raid gear in the face. Thankfully there won't be further armor from Eureka.

More numbers:

Using Raid Rightside cuz stranth, this means you're working with 11 materia slots on the left side with raid gear and 30 materia slots with Crafted gear.

Using Raid over crafted gains 56 strength vs 6 VI slots and 13 V slots. Since Direct Hit is the easiest calculation, but not necessarily the best, we'll use that.

Strength at i370 is 2392 for a Mooncat. This means the difference is about 2.4% less strength with crafted. This equates to Raid armor being 2.5% more damage before applying materia.

396 direct hit is about 9.9% direct hit, or about 2.48% increase damage, meaning the difference between raid and crafted armor is closer to 0%.

I neglected to mention that in in all this shuffle, we would also have to remove the ability to craft 25 str to accs to also match other jobs. ie: there would be a 125 net str gain on stock gear (which we already have by melding so not actually a large DPS increase. The only increase being 5 materia slots of secondary stats which is fairly minor all things considered). That essentially means that the 'swap' from left to right is 25 str less than youre projecting per piece.

With all the math done, the scaling from 350, 360, 370 would be like this:
(350 Current): (350 proposed)
(360 Current): (360 proposed)
(360 Current): (360 proposed)

Weapons:
315:268
330:278
347:291

Body/Legs
293:249
307:259
322:270

Head/Hands/Feet
180:153
189:159
198:166

Belts
135:115
142:120
149:125

Accs
68:115
68:120
69:125

All this does is really highlight how little progression there actually is because 5 slots have zero progression at all, so of course it looks bad when you even out the whole set. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. Tank progression is jacked. Tanks fundamentally have ~16% less str than melee dps in gear alone, but the same amount of secondary stats, so secondary stats have much more impact than str for tanks than DPS. Right now this is just entirely focused on pentamelded accessories, and if evenly distributed as above to match melees the power of secondaries is reduced on accessories, but increased on left side in direct porportion to the amount of str gained or lost, so yes, left side pentamelds would gain in relative power, but right side pentamelds would loose an equal amount of power. In this scenario the total number of primary and secondary stats remains completely unchanged, just where they come from.

All this stuff above is just the 'easiest' fix, but not neccessarily the best imo.

All that said, this is why I prefer the second option in which all primary and secondary stats are identical to DPS stats. This means a dramatic increase in overall str (accessories gain str= to dps accs), but you reduce the base weapon damage by a flat % to compensate.

For those uninitiated in the game damage formulas, Weapon damage is the foundation of all your damage and Str just multiplies that damage (which is then multiplied again by Det/Ten and then plug in crits/DH etc). So raw increases in strength are just a % multiplier in your overall damage and Weapon damage increases are also just a % multiplier to damage. We can increase one (str) and lower the other (weapon damage) and achieve identical damage output. So we can achieve even scaling like DPS accross all slots without any secondary stats overpowering ilvl by imitating DPS gear (raising our str and overall damage) then cutting weapon damage to maintain tank levels of DPS.

This gives more power to ilvl and less to secondary stats therefore pushing tank gear in the same direction as every other class. Ilvl is the most important stat. Raid drops superceed lower level pentamelds (Crafters survived when vit was primary, this wont kill them either as tank sales would just match other jobs crafted sales which still exist).

I actually don't like this approach. This will again make tanks special, and not in a good way.

Every job has the same WD on their weapon, no difference. Tank gear will be an exception yet again.
And how are we gonna fix this with lower/higher gear? Is tank-WD %-equivalent to any other job or by a fixed amount?
(If first: e.g. iLv 370 weapon has x WD, but iLv 375 raid weapon has x WD, too, because it's about same % as the DPS weapon?)

I guess every tank wants full strength on their gear to make them just as valueable as like for any other job.

So, either SE needs to reduce all STR values (as in numbers) on tank gear all across the board or they reduce the attack power STR provides to tanks.
And I think the later is better for SE to adjust tank DPS, since every damage they do is dependent on STR, and they wouldn't need to change every possible tank gear.
Right now, tank STR/attack power is about ~85% of a DPS STR/attack power. (With iLv 310 it was ~86.5%, now it's ~83.5%, already a 3% inflation.)
Even with full STR on accessories tank STR would be around ~97% of DPS STR. (Reason is job STR bonus and STR trait bonus, ~80 pts on Lv 70)
So, SE just need to set a STR multiplicator of 0.85-0.9 for tank attack power, and they can adjust tank DPS without changing gear values (in numbers), thus keeping raid gear more desirable than crafted.
There will be less inflation (probably around 0.5%), also no more STR melding, thus providing an opportunity to meld secondary stats.
Even if I might lose 1 STR point due to the multiplication result, I can handle that more than losing a WD point.

Still, this might trigger the other roles because still they might to meld VIT to survive certain mechanics.
This could be fixed by lowering the VIT value on tank accessories, just by a few points, enough to make VIT VI melds worth.
(Maybe always 25 pts below max value, or e.g. max +23 pts on iLv 350 and +25/26 on iLv 400)

SE came up with VIT/STR change with the last raid tier, now all suggested changes in this thread (or all around the forum/reddit etc.) wouldn't have any major impact on tank DPS like then. They might fix/"band-aid-fix" this even before 5.0. There is still hope.

Lowering weapon damage isnt an inherent problem. Brds have had lower weapon damage for the entire game. Mages magic damage is on an entirely different level of scaling all together. Books and staves have entirely different phy damage. Weapon damage makes no fundamental difference. It just sets the bar on how much damage a class does without changing the interactions of all the other stats in the game.

As for lowering the value of str (.9, .45, whatever) this also has negative consequences. The lower the ratio of str becomes, the more value the unchanged secondary stats become. This (in the extreme case) is why accessories are broken now. we gain so little str value (1 in 20 ilvls) that the increase in secondary stats is MORE important than the actual str gains and why the extra 72 secondary stats on pentamelds beat 20 ilvls of str. Lowering overall str values (like we have now) is the same thing as increasing the str number, but then lowering the str scaling. Both just make secondary stats more important.

However, if yuo raise the secondary stats to DPS levels (and therefore lower the value of secondary stats) ilvl reigns supreme. But to dial tank damage back, you cant just lower the value of str because that defeats the purpose of raising it in the 1st place. So you need to reduce tank damage in a way that doesnt affect str vs secondary stat relationship. Enter Weapon damage. It is a flat multiplier of ALL damage and doesnt discriminate. No side effects.

Raise str. Fixes progression, brings pentamelds in line where they should be. Reduce weapon damage to keep tank damage where it should be.

[ArianeEwah]

Lowering weapon damage isnt an inherent problem. Brds have had lower weapon damage for the entire game. Mages magic damage is on an entirely different level of scaling all together. Books and staves have entirely different phy damage. Weapon damage makes no fundamental difference. It just sets the bar on how much damage a class does without changing the interactions of all the other stats in the game.

As for lowering the value of str (.9, .45, whatever) this also has negative consequences. The lower the ratio of str becomes, the more value the unchanged secondary stats become. This (in the extreme case) is why accessories are broken now. we gain so little str value (1 in 20 ilvls) that the increase in secondary stats is MORE important than the actual str gains and why the extra 72 secondary stats on pentamelds beat 20 ilvls of str. Lowering overall str values (like we have now) is the same thing as increasing the str number, but then lowering the str scaling. Both just make secondary stats more important.

However, if yuo raise the secondary stats to DPS levels (and therefore lower the value of secondary stats) ilvl reigns supreme. But to dial tank damage back, you cant just lower the value of str because that defeats the purpose of raising it in the 1st place. So you need to reduce tank damage in a way that doesnt affect str vs secondary stat relationship. Enter Weapon damage. It is a flat multiplier of ALL damage and doesnt discriminate. No side effects.

Raise str. Fixes progression, brings pentamelds in line where they should be. Reduce weapon damage to keep tank damage where it should be.

Actually, with lowering WD of tanks %-equivalent to DPS (any other job) WD, you will create just what you wrote about my suggestion, but worse. That's why I wrote I can handle 1 STR loss due to value adjustment.
Your suggestion risks getting no WD for higher iLv at a certian point. And when that happens we are back to HW problems, there e.g. DRK iLv 270 was better than iLv 275 weapon because all secondary stats on iLv 275 were totally worthless (parry + SkS).
Well, if you get no WD increase, and secondray stats are better on the "lower" weapon, you have an incredibly similar situation to HW.

Now, as I stated in my post, lowering the value of STR to attack power doesn't require re-designing/working the whole tank weapon arsenal, and more importantly it doesn't make raid accessories worse than crafted ones.
The situation you describe only affects those which secondary stat are totally worthless. But tanks are not an exception here, the same goes for healers and certain DPS jobs, e.g. BRD. And my goal is to make tank gear not an exception.
Furthermore, regarding the WD change: You just stated there that "Brds have had lower weapon damage" as in the past. I bet there was a reason they changed this.
Also, WD isn't a flat multiplier for all damage only, the same goes for STR, DET, even TEN. It may be calculated in a different way, yet the results are equal or very close.
A change to STR:secondary stat from ~1:10 to ~1:11/12 (~0.9:10) will be barely noticed. WD on the other hand seems like an all-out change.

Maybe we seek different goals here.