Please fix tank accessories already, it's been 3 patches

[Aana]

"We should just have access to all of them."

*gives access to all of them*

I'm legit excited to finally use that AOE voke move. If nothing else its an extra voke which = more voke shirks and recovery vokes after tank deaths.

Also awareness on EVERY raw intuition. <3

[whiskeybravo]

I'm legit excited to finally use that AOE voke move. If nothing else its an extra voke which = more voke shirks and recovery vokes after tank deaths.

Also awareness on EVERY raw intuition. <3

Realistically, yeah, it'll be nice being able to take all the CDs instead of having to swap them out. But still, my point stands. Bandaid fixes are OK for somethings but not for others? Come on SE

[Kabooa]

Realistically, yeah, it'll be nice being able to take all the CDs instead of having to swap them out. But still, my point stands. Bandaid fixes are OK for somethings but not for others? Come on SE

Well, yeah.

One is "Mandatory actions eliminate the point of the role system in its implementation"

The other is "My tanking accessories aren't DPS upgrades", and there isn't going to be a single bandaid fix, or even a permanent one, that's going to make everyone happy.

Add +3 str per 10 ilvls "Why do we still have to meld Strength"
Remove strength melding "Why don't our accessories have more strength"
Accessories get more strength but other stats suffer because Tanks already do too much damage "Why do tanks not have full scaling on all gear"

Most of the adjustments suggested tend to be paired with "But you can also do X if tank damage is getting out of hand" which just means the adjustment was ultimately pointless.

More strength, but keep the same damage.

Well, that's just pointless, and a bandaid fix doesn't apply here.

[whiskeybravo]

Well, yeah.

One is "Mandatory actions eliminate the point of the role system in its implementation"

The other is "My tanking accessories aren't DPS upgrades", and there isn't going to be a single bandaid fix, or even a permanent one, that's going to make everyone happy.

Add +3 str per 10 ilvls "Why do we still have to meld Strength"
Remove strength melding "Why don't our accessories have more strength"
Accessories get more strength but other stats suffer because Tanks already do too much damage "Why do tanks not have full scaling on all gear"

Most of the adjustments suggested tend to be paired with "But you can also do X if tank damage is getting out of hand" which just means the adjustment was ultimately pointless.

More strength, but keep the same damage.

Well, that's just pointless, and a bandaid fix doesn't apply here.

I guess if we really wanted to be technical about it, strength being on accessories at all now was a bandaid fix to keep players from using HW accessories. But that aside.. A real solution would've been fixing the role actions themselves, giving us 5 extra slots is as "forced solution" as it gets lol. It doesn't make mandatory actions optional, and it's not like it was difficult to make a macro to change your role actions on the fly. Now it's set and forget, you'll never have to look at your role actions ever again. Never need to make a decision or work skills out between the roles. Less communication the better, after all.*

There's always going to be players pushing and pulling their favorite thoughts/ideas/opinions. That doesn't mean SE should throw their hands in the air and do nothing about this particular issue. We are asking for tanks to have the same, meaningful upgrade path as other jobs. I don't want to drop 20 million on crafted accessories. With enough friends hopefully I won't have to, but it's not an expense they should incur on my behalf either. It's not a difficult change to make at all, and is an extra 15-20 str on tanks really going to upset dps balance that much? Unlikely..

* reference to this thread

[Aana]

There have been a dozen completely viable, reasonable tank accessory changes that account for all the (stated) issues SE has talked about with tank main stats/HP/Weakness/Balance/etc and give players what they have been asking for (meaningful progression in all slots just like every other class in the game). On top of that, many of the suggestions do not even require fundamental system changes. Just number tweaks on gear.

My personal favorites are:
Option 1:
* Shuffle existing stats on tank gear between left and right side. Example (made up numbers):
Ilvl 150 gear: Total str on left side of gear is 1000. Total str on right side gear is 500. Total 1500.
illvl 200 gear: Total str on left side is 1450, right side gear is 550. Total 2000.
Fixed ilvl 150 gear: Left side total 750. Right side total 750. Total 1500
Fixed ilvl 200 gear: Left side total 1000. Right side total 1000. Total 2000.

No power creep/issue with damage. Zero affect on HP/Weakness. Every slot grows. Higher ilvl gear will beat lower ilvl gear. Requires gear number tweaks, no system fixes.

Option 2: Slightly more complex but ends up the same way.
*Boost str on accessories to match DPS str. Damage goes up by X%.
*Reduce Base Weapon Damage. Damage goes down by X%.
Properly tuned there would be virtually no change in tank damage and we get even progression between all slots like every other class. No HP/Weakness/System changes/Balance problems/etc.

There are plenty of other viable suggestions made all over these forums, I just think these are the easiest to implement (gear number changes), most straight forward, and check all the complaint boxes of players and avoid the 'issues' the devs have outwardly stated about this. At this point, there is no reason SE cannot give players what they want for minimal effort via simple gear number tweaks.

[Kabooa]

There's always going to be players pushing and pulling their favorite thoughts/ideas/opinions. That doesn't mean SE should throw their hands in the air and do nothing about this particular issue. We are asking for tanks to have the same, meaningful upgrade path as other jobs. I don't want to drop 20 million on crafted accessories. With enough friends hopefully I won't have to, but it's not an expense they should incur on my behalf either. It's not a difficult change to make at all, and is an extra 15-20 str on tanks really going to upset dps balance that much? Unlikely.

It might not be a difficult change, but it's also a pretty pointless one. 15-20 is just going mean that instead of being at 98% in full raid gear, you're going to be at 100%, about the same level if you still used crafted accessories.

So are you really going to tell me you're going to gamble for, at most, 20 weeks to hit your 100%, or are you still going to pay 20 million to hit that week 1?

[Aana]

It might not be a difficult change, but it's also a pretty pointless one. 15-20 is just going mean that instead of being at 98% in full raid gear, you're going to be at 100%, about the same level if you still used crafted accessories.

So are you really going to tell me you're going to gamble for, at most, 20 weeks to hit your 100%, or are you still going to pay 20 million to hit that week 1?

The complaints (imo) arent really about the difference in performance. As someone pointed out above, plenty of DPS and healers also buy crafted gear because it is still REALLY good for anyone starting out. Its the frustration of raiding and your entire group lets out a collective sigh when a tank accessory drops because we all know its going on a retainer instead of helping the group move forward. It's the extra 'mandatory-ness' that tanks are pressured to spend and pentameld more than other people (as noted, some people will buy them regardless, but now it is a choice to spend boats of money for a temporary boost just like other jobs, not a socially unacceptable shunning by the raid community).

It isnt about "oh well now you have to wait 3 months to get your 2% more damage why wouldnt you want it up front!?" This is just straightforward job equality. Every single job in this game has the same relationship with accessories as with ALL crafted equipment. It's an upfront boost for a tier for a LOOOOT of money. But never the end all and thus a choice. Just like meds. You can gil toss for power, but you can also just slow and cheap your way to the finish line and not make half the gear in savage raids dead on day 1 for 3 classes.

[whiskeybravo]

So are you really going to tell me you're going to gamble for, at most, 20 weeks to hit your 100%, or are you still going to pay 20 million to hit that week 1?

I mean I've never paid to hit it week one, I ain't got that kind of gil lol. It took me probably 4 or 5 weeks to get them all crafted and even longer to get them pentamelded. And if it wasn't for my awesome co-tank I wouldn't have had them at all (well, only 1 or 2). If it were up to me then yes, I'd gamble and wait until I got either the raid drops or tome gear (at most it'd be 16 weeks since there's only 4 raid acc, realistically less because it's unlikely that all 4 would be BiS). And hey, at least it might've given me a reason to have kept doing v5s instead of skipping it for basically the last 3 months

Even if they are only going to be 1-2% apart, it should at least favor the higher level gear. Regardless of the importance of that 1-2%, there's absolutely no justification for it to be found on the gear that's 20 item levels lower than cap. For only 1 job type no less. Like, maybe, JUST MAYBE, if it was that way with all the classes I'd call it a wash. But it's not, it's just for tanks, and that's the shitty part.

[Kabooa]

It isnt about "oh well now you have to wait 3 months to get your 2% more damage why wouldnt you want it up front!?" This is just straightforward job equality. Every single job in this game has the same relationship with accessories as with ALL crafted equipment. It's an upfront boost for a tier for a LOOOOT of money. But never the end all and thus a choice. Just like meds. You can gil toss for power, but you can also just slow and cheap your way to the finish line and not make half the gear in savage raids dead on day 1 for 3 classes.

There are two methods suggested here, aside from my own.

1. 15-20 more strength. This equalizes the gear, more or less, but then you're at the mercy of raid drops. Equalizing the gear is a pointless change because it doesn't change the fact that, for the people who care, they're still going to get the crafted accessories. The tank accessories dropping here are still less beneficial than anything else showing up. The dynamic hasn't changed: It's a bigger benefit if non-fending drops.

2. Shift the weights. Make left side less and right side more. Isn't that just terrible? Suddenly your left side pieces matter less. You haven't fixed the issue, you've merely moved it to all your pieces instead of just the accessories. You've made fending accessories more desirable to drop by making fending armor less desirable. This is already the case on specific pieces based on their sub stats, but now it's for all of them. Grand. Oh, and the kicker? You have to do this for all the gear, and to do it to the degree where Raiding Accessories are blatantly better, you severely harm Left Side weights.

Because if you shift 150 strength from Raid gear left to Raid Gear right, then you're shifting, what, 125 strength from Craft Gear Left to Craft Gear right. Any equivalent shifting of stats harms Fending leftside more than it boosts fending rightside.

You thought accessories were bad? Enjoy the more expensive pieces that you'll probably have to use now instead.

[whiskeybravo]

1. 15-20 more strength. This equalizes the gear, more or less, but then you're at the mercy of raid drops. Equalizing the gear is a pointless change because it doesn't change the fact that, for the people who care, they're still going to get the crafted accessories. The tank accessories dropping here are still less beneficial than anything else showing up. The dynamic hasn't changed: It's a bigger benefit if non-fending drops.

I find it difficult to believe it has to be so black and white, "raid drops are useless" and "at the mercy of raid drops" are the 2 most opposite ends of the spectrum. I don't think anyone has argued against crafting being a "leg up" for those capable of getting them the first week. There's nothing wrong with that aspect of crafted accessories. For anyone that did drop 20 mil week 1 then yea they probably aren't going to upgrade them, especially if it's only in the range of 1-2%. Again, nothing wrong here that's their choice. What I'm talking about, again I can only share from my perspective, like most serious players I eventually want to be BiS. That's half the reason I raid at all, I want to get better and better gear the more time I put in to it. It's a goal to eventually meet, obviously along with downing the content. I don't craft, I don't really gather, I don't sell content - so to me it feels like I'm being punished by wanting to be BiS because I've somehow got to come up with millions of gil that I don't care to farm instead of gearing up by running the content I love. You know, like every other job does. #becauseIamTank

And in the situation where a fending piece drops, even if str is equal between DPS and Tanks - it'd still be better for a DPS to get the upgrade because their kit is built for dealing damage, from higher potency attacks to buffs and debuffs it benefits them more. You're right, nothing has changed here.

2. Shift the weights. Make left side less and right side more. Isn't that just terrible? Suddenly your left side pieces matter less. You haven't fixed the issue, you've merely moved it to all your pieces instead of just the accessories. You've made fending accessories more desirable to drop by making fending armor less desirable. This is already the case on specific pieces based on their sub stats, but now it's for all of them. Grand. Oh, and the kicker? You have to do this for all the gear, and to do it to the degree where Raiding Accessories are blatantly better, you severely harm Left Side weights.

Because if you shift 150 strength from Raid gear left to Raid Gear right, then you're shifting, what, 125 strength from Craft Gear Left to Craft Gear right. Any equivalent shifting of stats harms Fending leftside more than it boosts fending rightside.

You thought accessories were bad? Enjoy the more expensive pieces that you'll probably have to use now instead.

I don't see how this is relevant. Much like the Weapon damage suggestion from Aana, the stats are what they are and we'd learn to deal with it. It's not like you can equip a DRG chest piece as a WAR, we aren't losing anything compared to other tanks. Bards had lower weapon damage throughout ARR iirc and it never affected their spot as a desired DPS, so I don't see how shifting STR around on tank gear would be any different. And I'm not much of a fan of this suggestion personally (I like the WD suggestion) but as long as the numbers are right it doesn't seem like it would be an issue. Tanks have X amount of str at max ilvl, shuffle around the numbers and they still have X amount of str. I kind of see what you're saying if there wasn't enough of an increase in stats between item levels, but I don't think crafted would be good enough to overcome all 11 pieces of gear being upgraded. There's always the possibility of 1 or 2 pieces having insanely better secondaries, and that's not far from where we are/have been in this game. I'm sure there are very few people who would willingly sit in a whole set of technically inferior gear strictly because of secondaries.