We need another Housing purge

[Hamada]

I want SE to at least go against those that hurt the community with their actions. Which people do, by buying houses (a limited resource) and selling it for way too much (which might even create more RMT money). That does not mean that it would be fine if they punish people for the smallest things but its their rules, so if they say that any kind of cursing is against their ToS then people simply have to stick to the rules. And if they say that since x day we wont allow reshade and wont turn a blind eye on parsers with streamers than it would be fine too because again its their game.

So if they go and state that x will be punishable from 10 days in the future then nobody can complain because its their rules. And if they suddenly go very nitpicky about it then its also on them to do that. Again I want a clear (and if necessary strict) enforcement of their rules. Say what is fine and what is not and coach your GM in this..so that people on one hand wont be punished for telling others about parsers and their numbers while they all completely ignore all the top raiders and streamers..
The same with housing. If you are against it then do something and they at least did it. But I am a bit surprised that this seemingly only stayed for a short amount of time..so maybe more outrage, more topics about this might give them enough reasons to finally enforce this forever.

About grandfathered: I am not a fan that people were able to keep all the houses that went over the max amount but at least SE stated that these would be handled that way. So its clear that they did not want to punish them because there had been no rule against owning x houses. But then they changed the rule but only kept the technical part about owning just one FC house for a short amount of time. So is the rule itself still active or not? Are any of those homes that people got by account transfering while the rule was active not against it?

I am not sure about Rogatum or if that was the intent, but the fact Awha said "They will not give you a straight answer, just accept it. " shows at least them expects us to fall for the red haring so they can pull out a stawman type debate to try to put less of a meaning of our argument or defeat it all together. I find it really offensive Awha said that, and further, implying how OliverB breaking the "Posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members. " (forum posting rule) with their signature funny. I am not laughing, I do not find it funny to mock those harmed by these selfish actions and rule breaking.

Your last question to them shows something key though, are they against that kind of rule exploitation? Just because people warned SE on that rule breaking that gives them an excuse to break the rule when SE could not close the loophole? I think it is wrong, not only it being clear to me that it breaks the ToS, but wrong on moral grounds too, as someone else pointed out, this is a prime example of tragedy of the commons.

There is nothing we can do about "grandfathering" in houses, however there is a person here in this very thread that posted several times about how they exploited rules and violated rules (especially when they told someone about buying a house for a 100 M, and buying personal house over FC so it is easier to sell it off.) to help buy a ward out. I feel I need to remind to those that are confused that there is nothing we can do about with some people owning a lot of homes, on the other hand you shouldn't be posting about how to exploit the rules.

[Zale]

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yeah, they can change their rules at any time, but that doesn't mean people will follow it simply because they say so. there will always be people like that in every game. you're delusional if you believe otherwise. yshtola isn't hurting anyone, they were merely defending themselves from being targetted. if you're the one getting upset over people buying/selling houses that's your own personal problem. there's more to life than a virtual house on an online video game that'll just disappear anyway once you get bored of the game. SE doesn't care and people have addressed this multiple times. if people want to buy houses at absurd prices then they're only hurting themselves, not the people who sell the houses. it's just like RMT, it wouldn't be a problem if there weren't buyers. the only difference is, the houses aren't potentially misleadingly obtained like RMT gil could be. they obtain the houses just like any normal person in the game. you can call it greed all you want, but it's... a video game? and it's not for real money.

btw, there is a difference between parsing and housing. don't compare the two. parsing doesn't harm anyone and isn't against ToS so long as you do not mention it. but the thing is, depending on context, mentioning someone's numbers can be considered as a form of harassment if i remember correctly. housing doesn't harm you, and you know that. are you gonna call it harassment for people selling/buying houses? don't think so. again, while streamers may seem like they get a "free pass" in your eyes, ultimately they aren't breaking rules, either. SE can't do much for something that's out of their game unless they are doing it within the game. and they will tell you they can't do anything, trust me. that's up to twitch to handle, and it's a whole other topic.

the rest of you should probably seek some form of help if you're getting this bent out of the frame over something this minor. your logic only seems to be "IT'S AGAINST THE RULES AND THEREFORE IT'S BAD! XD" while i sympathize with you, there are more concerning things than housing. and look at that, does SE truly do anything? love SE, but they don't. but you don't have any counterargument than just that, because obviously you don't do enough research or maybe lack the intelligence to do so, and thus you place the blame on yshtola for something that is ultimately SE's fault for handling improperly. there's bots running rampant and hacked accounts, yet you choose to complain about this.

[Awha]

I am not sure about Rogatum or if that was the intent, but the fact Awha said "They will not give you a straight answer, just accept it. " shows at least them expects us to fall for the red haring so they can pull out a stawman type debate to try to put less of a meaning of our argument or defeat it all together. I find it really offensive Awha said that, and further, implying how OliverB breaking the "Posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members. " (forum posting rule) with their signature funny. I am not laughing, I do not find it funny to mock those harmed by these selfish actions and rule breaking.

Your last question to them shows something key though, are they against that kind of rule exploitation? Just because people warned SE on that rule breaking that gives them an excuse to break the rule when SE could not close the loophole? I think it is wrong, not only it being clear to me that it breaks the ToS, but wrong on moral grounds too, as someone else pointed out, this is a prime example of tragedy of the commons.

There is nothing we can do about "grandfathering" in houses, however there is a person here in this very thread that posted several times about how they exploited rules and violated rules (especially when they told someone about buying a house for a 100 M, and buying personal house over FC so it is easier to sell it off.) to help buy a ward out. I feel I need to remind to those that are confused that there is nothing we can do about with some people owning a lot of homes, on the other hand you shouldn't be posting about how to exploit the rules.

At the very least Alleo understands that punishing players without warning is unfair. If SE gave a warning that they would no longer turn a blind eye to certain violations that would be fair and I would have no complaints. Some would still complain, but overall if SE gave warnings and did not punish people retroactively that is fair. You on the other hand want to punish people retroactively for something SE was made aware the moment the rule changes were announced. That is unfair, I cannot speak for anyone else but that is all I have been trying point out that punishing people for violations they have let go unchecked because of a change of heart is unfair, they should make an official statement stating how they are going to be stricter when it comes to rule enforcement.

Sorry the ToS itself is not a warning, since if they do not enforce the rules they should not expect people to follow them. Do you not see how it would be unfair to hand out punishments without giving an official statement regarding the change in how they will be handing enforcing the ToS, after not enforcing said rules for the longest time? Nevertheless, I do agree with Zale, that realistically you should be more upset with SE, people warned SE and they did not listen yet you are upset with players instead of the developers.

[Hamada]

At the very least Alleo understands that punishing players without warning is unfair. If SE gave a warning that they would no longer turn a blind eye to certain violations that would be fair and I would have no complaints. Some would still complain, but overall if SE gave warnings and did not punish people retroactively that is fair. You on the other hand want to punish people retroactively for something SE was made aware the moment the rule changes were announced. That is unfair, I cannot speak for anyone else but that is all I have been trying point out that punishing people for violations they have let go unchecked because of a change of heart is unfair, they should make an official statement stating how they are going to be stricter when it comes to rule enforcement.

Sorry the ToS itself is not a warning, since if they do not enforce the rules they should not expect people to follow them. Do you not see how it would be unfair to hand out punishments without giving an official statement regarding the change in how they will be handing enforcing the ToS, after not enforcing said rules for the longest time? Nevertheless, I do agree with Zale, that realistically you should be more upset
with SE, people warned SE and they did not listen yet you are upset with players instead of the developers.

"You on the other hand want to punish people retroactively for something SE was made aware the moment the rule changes were announced. " I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Are you just trying to slightly twist what is being stated to make your narrative sound better or are you simply not understanding what I am saying? Our stances are not different at all, and yet you are trying to make them sound like they are, for what reason I am not sure, other then pointing out I do not like it and explaining why. SE states rules before the new wards go in effect, people exploit the rules, one person even explained here how you do it, so that is wrong, plain and simple, and Alleo said before such actions is rule breaking. I am not sure what your objective is trying to say we are saying different things.

They gave an official statement:
https://youtu.be/BJwPCxau7CA?t=334

Yes you are right, I am very upset with SE, I am very upset they are not taking action on someone posting how to exploit the rules, why you think I am here to begin with? SE not babying the player base is not an excuse to defend breaking the rules. 2.1 is there for a reason.

[Awha]

"You on the other hand want to punish people retroactively for something SE was made aware the moment the rule changes were announced. " I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Are you just trying to slightly twist what is being stated to make your narrative sound better or are you simply not understanding what I am saying? Our stances are not different at all, and yet you are trying to make them sound like they are, for what reason I am not sure, other then pointing out I do not like it and explaining why. SE states rules before the new wards go in effect, people exploit the rules, one person even explained here how you do it, so that is wrong, plain and simple, and Alleo said before such actions is rule breaking. I am not sure what your objective is trying to say we are saying different things.

They gave an official statement:
https://youtu.be/BJwPCxau7CA?t=334

Yes you are right, I am very upset with SE, I am very upset they are not taking action on someone posting how to exploit the rules, why you think I am here to begin with? SE not babying the player base is not an excuse to defend breaking the rules. 2.1 is there for a reason.

Correct me if I am wrong, you want SE to punish those that used the loophole to bypass the one FC per account rule right? I am saying that is unfair, SE should make a statement that moving forward they will be punishing players that are caught using the loophole. Since the fact is SE knew was warned about the possibility, and did nothing about it, so players should not be retroactively punished for SE's inaction up until the moment the decide to take action.

[Paladinleeds]

Correct me if I am wrong, you want SE to punish those that used the loophole to bypass the one FC per account rule right? I am saying that is unfair, SE should make a statement that moving forward they will be punishing players that are caught using the loophole. Since the fact is SE knew was warned about the possibility, and did nothing about it, so players should not be retroactively punished for SE's inaction up until the moment the decide to take action.

Exactly. They left the loophole open, they said "This is what we're doing to try and bridge this gap" but didn't say "We will punish those who abuse the loophole". Plus I don't treat YouTube as an "official source" for most of the playerbase. It will need to be on the lodestone (and thus the launcher) for me to count it. Note: I have one personal house on my account across all realms. As for FCs, I don't believe I am in any that have a house. They need an official statement telling people "Relinquish your excess housing or we'll start punishing" and then allow a say 45 day grace period for people to get it sorted (housing demo timer). Any that don't conform, then by all means start forcefully taking plots away (w/o recuperation if needed). But until then, no. That's just asking for a PR calamity.

[Hamada]

Correct me if I am wrong, you want SE to punish those that used the loophole to bypass the one FC per account rule right? I am saying that is unfair, SE should make a statement that moving forward they will be punishing players that are caught using the loophole.

Yep, I am expecting this now:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4611113
It should be a very serious manner when someone is posting on the OF how to exploit the game.

[Awha]

Yep, I am expecting this now:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4611113
It should be a very serious manner when someone is posting on the OF how to exploit the game.

You can expect it all you want, more likely what will happen is the players will be grandfathered into a new set of rules still getting to keep their plots. Also each situation is not the same, the LB was reported to SE but no action was taken think it was because the report got lost. Regarding the housing loophole threads were riddled with comments as to how people will end up selling FC's instead of plots. People also brought up the concern regarding inactive FC's and ownership transferring. The LB issue was kept secret by those that found it, the possibility of the housing loophole was posted the day the rules were announced.

[Hamada]

You can expect it all you want, more likely what will happen is the players will be grandfathered into a new set of rules still getting to keep their plots.

Have you been reading what was taking place? I said a thousand times, to you, and to others before you been posting I am not talking about "grandfathered plots" someone outright posted they had 9 houses going into 4.2, and exploited the rules from there to get more.. and this:

A house opened up next door to my FC on my server and I tried to give an FC member gil to purchase it but they were unable to because of the timer. While we were standing all over the placecard trying to plan our next move, some undressed miqo'te who was level 50 max, comes literally sprinting down the street, relocates instantly, and names their new house "My Ward, not yours". Not entirely certain what the message behind the name of the plot meant; but it was pretty obviously an alt with the intention to flip. That was two weeks ago and to this very day, the house has not been decorated. The same plot was later spotted on reddit for sale apart of an outrageous bundle deal requesting for 10 times the amount it was by default price just for relocation value. Yeah, it was a bit upsetting to see.

Why do you keep repeating your self on a subject I am not talking about, and told you repeatedly I was not talking about? Yes, things get lost in translation all the time, still not an excuse to defend rule breaking, both on the ToS itself, and basic morals.

Exactly. They left the loophole open, they said "This is what we're doing to try and bridge this gap"

but didn't say "We will punish those who abuse the loophole". Plus I don't treat YouTube as an "official source" for most of the playerbase. It will need to be on the lodestone (and thus the launcher) for me to count it. Note: I have one personal house on my account across all realms. As for FCs, I don't believe I am in any that have a house. They need an official statement telling people "Relinquish your excess housing or we'll start punishing" and then allow a say 45 day grace period for people to get it sorted (housing demo timer). Any that don't conform, then by all means start forcefully taking plots away (w/o recuperation if needed). But until then, no. That's just asking for a PR calamity.

yeah someone dressed up to make it sound like it is a faked live letter rolls eyes

[Awha]

Have you been reading what was taking place? I said a thousand times, to you, and to others before you been posting I am not talking about "grandfathered plots" someone outright posted they had 9 houses going into 4.2, and exploited the rules from there to get more.. and this:


Why do you keep repeating your self on a subject I am not talking about, and told you repeatedly I was not talking about?
4
Have you been reading what was taking place? I said a thousand times, to you, and to others before you been posting I am not talking about "grandfathered plots" someone outright posted they had 9 houses going into 4.2, and exploited the rules from there to get more.. and this:


Why do you keep repeating your self on a subject I am not talking about, and told you repeatedly I was not talking about?

Yes, things get lost in translation all the time, still not an excuse to defend rule breaking, both on the ToS itself, and basic morals.




yeah someone dressed up to make it sound like it is a faked live letter rolls eyes

I am not talking about those that were grandfathered in, the method of transferring ownership from one player to another was brought up when they announced the changes. In short if SE really paid attention to feedback they would have known about said loophole. That is more or less what they did they transferred ownership of an FC that had a plot. You make it seem like what the person did is a new thing, nah it is not. Also not defending rule breaking, I saying players should not be punished for actions SE was made aware of on the official forums yet SE made the choice to ignore the feedback.