Remove the Grand Company aspect entirely from Frontline

[Theodric]

Switching to Maelstrom isn't a solution.

The sheer amount of people snagging easy victories through encouraging pre-mades shows that a lot of so called 'PvP enthusiasts' don't actually enjoy the content. They don't want a hard earned victory. They don't value good-sportsmanship. With achievements being tied to specific factions that is an added complication.

These are the same people who likely contributed to Rival Wings dying on Aether - because as soon as they snagged their achievement mounts they ditched the game mode entirely.

That people take the path of least resistance in this game shouldn't be a surprise. Not to players and certainly not to the developers. So hopefully measures will be taken to address the imbalances that currently exist. A forced freelancer feature would ensure that everybody is on equal footing.

Let people queue up in pre-mades if they so desire - but make that a separate version of the game mode. We'll soon see how popular it actually is.

[Zalestra]

I truly do not understand the mentality in this thread right now. Why is everyone hating on pre-mades when that is clearly not the problem! Pre-mades are forced into freelance status, which arguably means any pre-mades should be placed into a random GC.

This would not lead to the /real/ issue we have right now, which is that Mael has an unfairly high win rate. This is backed up by the Frontline standings on the lodestone: 23 of the top 30 players are on Maelstrom. This CAN'T be a coincidence, and isn't, as many freelance players (myself included) are constantly stacked into Flames and have statistically low win rates (5 -15%). Mael is just winning far more often than the other 2 GC.

Obviously what is /actually/ happening is that many talented PVP players are swapping to Maelstrom and solo queueing. So a large majority of the talent pool is concentrated into 1 GC. It seems like a premade because they just know how to friggen work together and how to actually PVP. They probably also have good leadership and shot calling.

The other 2 GC will then get slotted with a lot of newbies or FL roulette people who don't give a frigg about tactics or even trying to win. Adder doesn't seem as poor off as Flames, but they seem to have more dedicated PVPers as well.

The only real and fair solution is to remove GC queueing. Nothing else will solve this problem the PVP community has painted itself into. I am sure that many Mael players who are busy farming achievements and mounts will be against this solution, but we need to solve this sickness before Frontline dies again. With talent being spread more evenly, more matches will be less frustrating and depend on players sharpening their skill. Newbies won't give up, we can teach better, queue times should be better for everyone. Plz SE

[OskarXCI]

Rival wings died because it needs 48 people to pop. RW isnt on the roulette as well, so the once per day people ignore it. It actually was a better mode than frontlines in terms of being objective based.

Rival Wings required too many people plus class balance was wayy off, healers were wayy too OP.

I did a bunch of Rival Wings matches this weekend thanks to the Chaos Discord that organizes events and I can say that the mode is a lot more balanced now compared to when the mode launched.

1. Power generator at mid was nerfed.
2. You get twice as much CE from killing mammets
3. CE tanks spawns in more places.
4. Healing on mammets was nerfed by 50%.

I think Aether and Primal has a RW discord as well. Join those. Give the mode another shot.

it doesnt matter, the pvp community wants to ruin the mode, thats why they keep running premades. They have to know by now its hurting it, but they keep doing it. So just let the mode get ruined already

They aren't running premades. They all switch to one GC, which is Maelstrom, and turns off freelancer mode while queuing solo.

Freelancer status is forced if you queue as a premade.

[Cidel]

Serious question, as someone who has always been on Mael from the very 1st Frontlines- probably can count number of freelanced matches on one hand (and that was just out of curiosity when it went live): Are there ever people making call-outs on Adders and Flames (especially Flames) on objectives? It appears that Adders probably do, as they always tend to be our biggest threat in most games; but Flames really look like they spend most matches actively spoiling the game for another GC rather than play around objectives and trying to win. At least on Primal, anyway.

There's truth to Zalestra's observation that Maelstrom frequently has players calling shots (with <se.#>'s: this is crucial because the tunnel vision is real), constantly observing the map and actively reeling-in (with varying success) overzealous aggressive chasing at the expense of favorable map positioning. Premades on Mael really aren't a thing (and I think most stigma about them prior to freelance were overblown), and I say that as someone who religiously solo queues and would notice if a constant group of people kept being in the same party.

I do think abolishing the GCs in Frontlines would see a better distribution of skill and probably even speed-up queues. But somehow I feel that the devs are too invested in the shallow "lore" of Frontlines to outright do anything about it. That and they've put a good amount of achievements into it that I don't think they'll want to have to adjust/abolish.

[RiyahArp]

Serious question, as someone who has always been on Mael from the very 1st Frontlines- probably can count number of freelanced matches on one hand (and that was just out of curiosity when it went live): Are there ever people making call-outs on Adders and Flames (especially Flames) on objectives?

On flames, people will call out objectives, but Mael acts in unison far more, to the point of timing their limit breaks to use together when taking a point. And mael, especially in 8 man, always has 2 healers and a ton of ranged, where flames will have a mix of melee, healers, tanks, etc. There's definitely a difference; in HW mael geenrally weren't THAT organized where they roll over people so easily, and the leads varied a bit more. I mean, you can call out stuff, but if your parties obey instantly all the time more likely than not they are premades.

[Zsolen]

Serious question, as someone who has always been on Mael from the very 1st Frontlines- probably can count number of freelanced matches on one hand (and that was just out of curiosity when it went live): Are there ever people making call-outs on Adders and Flames (especially Flames) on objectives? It appears that Adders probably do, as they always tend to be our biggest threat in most games; but Flames really look like they spend most matches actively spoiling the game for another GC rather than play around objectives and trying to win. At least on Primal, anyway.

Flames are really bad on Aether. They often either attack Adders the entire match or attack Mael the entire match, often throwing the win to the GC they didn't go after. When the other GC not winning is trying to angle themselves, so they and Flames can pincer the leading GC, Flames seem to find a way to still go after the non-winning opponent. When I'm in Flames with one or two other people (forcing freelancer), I think the one match they actually listened. The other matches they basically laughed at me trying to rally them. Adders are generally more responsive. Sometimes I have to make calls. Sometimes someone else steps up. Adders are usually ranged heavy, so chasing us a little bit on retreat is usually a coin flip on whether it is a good idea or not. Mael is usually the most organized, but sometimes they get too much bloodlust. I've seen Mael lose matches, because they had no focus on objectives with multiple people with double digit kills. I also noticed that Mel is a bit of a glass cannon. Once they are on the run, unless they can phalanx themselves, they often get swarmed.

[RiyahArp]

Well, the thing is too a lot of this "correct" strategy flames and adders are supposed to do would involve colluding to virtually never attack each other if they met. A lot of "throwing" is just the second and third place team run into each other and actually pvp instead of always acting in unison to pincer first place. Like many times you'd need flames to not even go for the third node out of three, let adder have it, then try to attack mael's first node hoping adder will attack the second in a pincer. If the two other teams get entangled in a battle at all, it can look like throwing.

[Hellstorm]

I truly do not understand the mentality in this thread right now. Why is everyone hating on pre-mades when that is clearly not the problem

You are half right. While premade are currently not the problem they would be if you took away th GC. Only way to solve the problem is to make it freelance, no group que and evaluate exp by amount of effort put in.

[Elktrinity]

People don't want to play without insane advantages because they like to faceroll people, not actually PVP. Take away any bonuses, buffs, gear, etc. and no one would like it. Why? It would require ACTUAL skill to play (assuming the classes are balanced - HUGE assumption there since they aren't) and they want the instant gratification (to them) that comes with destroying their opponent and then dancing on their corpse like a disrespectful coward. You have to remember, PVP in general attracts the WORST people on the internet, let alone the worst of people in the real world. I get that devs need money so they have to attract all types of players, but games turned into more of a business and less of a passion (unless your passion is money and greed), so instant gratification wins the day. I do the daily and that's it. Frontline, Rival Wings is broken and not fun at all. Feast is a step in the right direction and I hope they continue to refine it.

[GenericMagus]

I would just like to add to the myth of the pre-made, the only reason why those pre-mades are successful are because they're skilled and communicative. The average PvP player is unskilled, and that's a fact