Are the developers of XIV out of touch?

[Dzian]

There's nothing wrong with old gear being obsolete as new gear comes out. Not seeing what the problem is, when you have glamours and such.

I would say there is a lot wrong with it. I'd even wager it is one of the biggest reasons player retention is so bad.

And as many people have said many times it simply does not feel better. It may be true that each piece is significantly better than the last. But at the same time those pieces aren't satisfying to get and have no wow factor to them. Because as significant as the upgrade may be the fact remains it's an incredibly short lived one. Everything you get in vertical games is trash.

Which goes back to my earlier post and another common opinion you see on the forums and in game.. players just dont bother making the effort to get gear or something that will be a pile of trash tomorrow. Hence why many don't raid or bother with extreme primal. It's just not worthwhile..

All of which is a contributing reason to why the game struggles to retain players..

[polyphonica]

I would say there is a lot wrong with it. I'd even wager it is one of the biggest reasons player retention is so bad.

Honestly, I'm not sure that player retention in this game is that much worse than any other MMO on the market, including WoW and the flotilla of F2P/B2P MMOs. (Places like forums are an inevitable gathering point for disgruntled people, no matter the game.)

Horizontal progression appeals mostly to core players who are able and willing to invest a lot of time so long as they feel their investment is "worth it" over the long term. But, even if it's carefully tuned, it creates a perception that the game is increasingly impenetrable as time goes on (for the investment to be "worth it," it can't be useless). Burn out is going to happen inevitably either way, but in a vertical progression game you always know you can come back and catch up without feeling like you're inescapably behind (even if means, consequentially, that the things you earn have less long-term value except maybe as glamour). This is partly why the game puts so much emphasis on the story and the aspects that make it more like "a single-player RPG with MMO components." The name of the game for a theme park is breadth, not depth. (Theme parks aren't concerned about providing enough entertainment to season pass holders who choose to come in every day, since most season pass holders don't show up nearly that often.)

In the end, I really don't think that fundamental design decision is something they're going to change no matter how much people complain, as it's just part of what FFXIV is (and is not). This isn't necessarily a sign of being "out of touch," but all developers need to understand the goals and non-goals for their project. If they change this in any way, I imagine it won't be until FFXVII Online (if they make one).

[tinythinker]

the mansion's foundation is cracked, the wooden framework is rotten, and there's a bat colony in the attic.

Someone's been to Titusville (obscure reference).

[polyhedral]

The fact that they are laughing in our faces at some of the questions and concerns that are voiced directly to them, kinda made me start playing ffxi again, and stop playing ffxiv for a while. That, and the whole ultimate/rmt/streamer irl money issue that is plaguing this game. I may lose my house in xiv, but honestly, I don't see the community needing to be together like I do in ffxi, so what I lose a house while taking yet another, year or two long break from this game. This would make the second home I would have lost. This game can't keep folks interested in it with all the vertical predictable af progression. Maybe I do want to farm gear that does last me longer than 3 months. Maybe I do like seeing faces in the old zones. Maybe I did like all of the cross class abilities 1.0 had, and the subjob system allowed in xi. These devs and directors of ffxiv are crapping on their own old content, for what cause? It's not because we asked them to completely make Ishgard a void today, quite the opposite in fact. Many have asked them over and over to do something new to get people back in that city state, and they just keep laughing at those questions, like drunk maniacs abusing their own loyal customers. Maybe that's just it, too much drunk behavior. Maybe I quit caring to hear their answers in live letters. Maybe I'm sick of the direction this game has taken. But, who cares. This may be the last time I even post here for a few years or more, *IF* this game ever does change at all to get my attention back again. I doubt it will though. Drunks sinking their own ship.

[KaldeaSahaline]

First of all no I don't find eureka fun since killing mobs zone can only keep my interest for not that long since I've done many of those in the past.
Second of all This zone was designed to be a mobs killing zone as such grindy as such if you didn't imagine that it would become that boring by it's very inception I don't know what to say to you.

You're missing my point again. You say this zone was designed specifically for X, and I explained with examples how that's bad design. Designing a core feature to one isolated group with no alternative avenues/functions is juvenile design.

You say that chocobo racing would be better if it was like mario kart, Nope would still be annoying to me.

If I don't like the premise of something coating it with sugar won't make me like it, maybe make it more tolerable but not like it.

Humor me - is there anything they could do to Chocobo racing that would make you like it? How about this - tell me WHY you would find my iteration of Chocobo racing "annoying". Cite specifics/details please.

Many ppl keep buying COD or battelfield does that means that the franchise is excellent btw? Mayority doesn't always mean good

Excellent? Not sure as I'm not a huge FPS player these days. Successful though? Yes. It unequivocally does.

Point is you find hunts fun? I sure don't yet some do. Do I need to say out loud remove hunts because they are not fun?

You're still missing my point. I'm not asking to remove hunts or eureka. I'm asking to design hunts and Eureka to be more robust as to include more playertypes. To stop designing content forms based on the most derivative gameplay possible.

I agree with the first part, not the grind comment here. Or rather, I think grinds, when well-designed, can organically boost content lifespan.

Let me clarify - I don't consider ANYTHING I enjoy a grind, no matter how involved or long it takes.

So when I use the word grind or grindy it very strictly implies not fun and repetitive. Something like A1S light parties would fall into this, Atma farming, Eureka. etc.

Let's take a laughing stock, lord of verminion. I can tell you that if games of verminion took let's say 30 secs to 1 min, the reception would've been better, what's the problem with verminion? Overxtending, SE went too much deep into a minigame and made it too much complex for it's own good. Gold Saucer is just a side activity zone for optional rewards as such content within it should never overstay it's welcome.

Overextending wasn't LoV's issue. Not sure where you even got that from.

Duty recorder could've been very good for analyzing fights, but for reasons they only know it's bogged down by stupid restrictions.

Duty Recorder was a complete waste of dev resources. It demonstrated a clear lack of perspective from the devs. Normal players aren't going to use it because they don't care nor do they do content where accountability/performance is important. Savage players can already accomplish the same thing live via FFLogs or Twitch without having to go through a bunch of stupid hoops and limitations.

The point is that there is no harm to adding more attractions to the game. You are not required to play all of them, just like you're not required to go on the Pirates of the Carribbean ride and Space Mountain. Disneyland also retires rides after they wane in popularity or wear out.

Except there's literally an example that defeats the entire point literally live in Disney World, not sure about Disney Land. Simply adding new attractions isn't good. Adding GOOD attractions is good.

Mission Space is much more than a simple ride. It has 3 different things in it for various "playertypes". You have the intro mission and simulator, then you have the playground for kids, and then you have the video game where teams of up to like 20 people compete to fix a ship. I get motion sickness, so the simulator part is a one and done for the experience for me, but the video game thing was an absolute blast and my buddies and I (on our senior trip) literally challenged everyone who walked in.

A Eureka parallel would have been if the ride was just the simulator.

They watch streamers, that's how they take their infos.

If as I suspect they use streamers as an aggregator of ppl for infos it might be possible that idd they are the sources

This first sentence comes off as stating your opinion as fact. You do not know that's where they get their info from, unless you personally have insider information that msot don't. The second sentence better affirms your position that it's an opinion and open to challenge.

Speaking personally - I don't think that's where they get their info from. I'd bet that have internal tools that give them limited and poor data, and they supplement it with probably mostly JP forum info.

Like if anything is a detriment to the game, it's creating separate "savage" tiers of content at all that only 1-3% of the players play and unwilling to help others learn it. There needs to be some better incentive to get players to help, and not by making players pay for unsync clears. Like maybe don't even unlock the "expert/savage/ultimate" tier until 10-20% of the subscribed players sync-lock clear the previous tier.

Why help players who don't want to be helped? Why force changes based on that? You got your normal mode. Please enjoy that so I can enjoy Savage in peace please. Keep your bias out of design. For everyone sake.

[Remedi]

Eureka is not a core feature.

I don't like racing games

Cod and battelfield have been notorious in rehashing their formulas too much and ppl buys them mostly because the fear of older games diying off

Content is designed for more than yourself deal with it. I've said plently that PVP is trash tier content for me but I don't ask for them to stop working on it even though imho it would be the best thing ever since it won't ever work, but honestly I deal with it since it's fine that not everything in a MMO is designed to be of my liking or suit the masses.
Heck remove savage then it only works for 10% of the playerbase! I mean seriously....

Lov is overxtending because they wanted to add too many things to the table just making it a short minigame would've made it too popular instead they wanted to make several pointless additions to it for no reason

Duty recorder is not really a bad thing but they limited the use of it to 1 duty alone/patch for apparently no reason, they made you impossible to watch it unless you are in an inn, otherwise it would be very useful to raiding, True you can do that already with twitch and other media, but it's not a bad thing per se only the implementation has been ass

I don't know that they take infos from streams, I DO know that they watch them, I DO know they've been using them for promotions too as such they DO use them in some forms. Yes it's my opinion but I have enough evidence to make the claim that companies have been using streamers as Class A gamers for some times now and eprsonally speaking I'm not okay with this. Ofc they also take infos from other sources I'm not saying that streamers are the only source, but considering how streamers were invited in the press conference well I do think that they hold them in high esteem

[KisaiTenshi]

Why help players who don't want to be helped? Why force changes based on that? You got your normal mode. Please enjoy that so I can enjoy Savage in peace please. Keep your bias out of design. For everyone sake.

If you read that in context, you'd see that I said that in the same context of where resources should be allocated. If SE was allocating resources evenly to PvP, Raider EX-Primals/Ultimate, Alliance Raids, Overworld, MSQ/Storyline, Eureka, PotD, Chocobo Racing, Lord of Verminion, etc, then allocating any resources at all to anything that isn't MSQ would be seen as a detriment.

The Japanese raiders have three times the clear rate of hard content than NA. That is not NA "players don't want to be helped" that is a particular NA raider mindset that is offputting to doing the content. You can't tell the NA players who don't want to be treated like garbage to go move to the JP servers, because then the JP players would be upset with the rudeness of the NA players, and then SE would likely cease working on that content entirely because the NA players can't be civil.

[Hamada]

But a view streamers do not make a whole playerbase. And reddit itself was pretty negative about it too. There was a thread with over 1000 upvotes and it was really negative. If thats how they get their informations, then no wonder that we got Diadem 2.0..

OMG... if they only get info from onesided viewpoints of streamers, that is a big issue. mr happy will never criticize things of the game, no matter how bad they are. I do not know about the other streamers, but they seem to carry a big bias.

[KisaiTenshi]

OMG... if they only get info from shrill streamers, that is a big issue. mr happy will never say negative things of the game, no matter how bad they are. I do not know about the other streamers.

If he wants to keep those interviews with Yoshi-P/SE staff, he has to keep criticism of the company to a low burn. Journalism is not about opinions, it's about fact-finding.

Generally speaking, some journalists that are given advance access to content, are under a NDA to not publish it before the company wants it to, and are not permitted to level criticism at unfinished content. They can say what they think might be lacking from it, but they can't insert personal opinion, because it might color how it gets received by those who watch/read the journalist's content. Just look at what happened already.

SE is not going to hand out a review copy of a game to someone who routinely makes comments alluding to SE being incompetent like some players do on the forum. There are many criticisms I have of SE as a company that I feel are factually true (eg objectively bad ports of FF5/6/Chrono Trigger, non-trivially bug-ridden ports of FFXIII, XV and Neir Automata) that were not always true. FF7 (1997) and FF8 (1998) PC ports which actually were superior to their PSX versions, but the average PC's music hardware was just awful (FF8 actually included a softsynth, FF7 had a soundfont for Sound Blaster cards. The FMV for both also suffered due to codec license BS), and PC joysticks have always been rubbish. Fast forward to FFXV where the PC version is loading-time hell, and full of nVidia gameworks bugs and memory leaks.

If SE is in fact using twitch players as any kind of barometer of feedback, (to which I hope they're not), it's very likely that they are not listening to people violating the materials usage license:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...la=1&tag=authc

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[Remedi]

and the difference from a forum goer is...? I said they use them to guage, not that they take them as stone cold truth.

Also why not Klopsgg aka laylabell or frosty? It's that a personal bias against mrhappy? There are plenty more of them you know? I made this point yes but I'd like ppl not to start a witch hunt

@kisaitenshi props for someone stating what exactly is journalism