From all thread that asking content (hardcore vs casual) : sum up objectiveto SE

[Aegis]

To make it actually work in MMO, you have to add "teamwork" aspect into it so that if someone fail a little off, then the team actually wipe. (Ifrit allow too many fail, thus too easy) Considering this require perfect run that everybody must perform together would make this actually worthy achievement. The chance to perform perfect run together by 8 people will be obviously low, this allow time sink that SE need. And of course, for casual, they can win if they have skill, and never win if they just simply bad.

This is, unfortunately, not what Casuals want. A situation that requires a perfect run must require a perfect team (otherwise you can take a perfect team and do a less than perfect run due to your better setup). Casuals do not want to be 'forced' to level other classes; take for example the LNC/Sentinel outcry.

If you make something require a perfect run from a perfect setup, you will make hardcore happy, but not casuals. If you make something that requires a perfect run from a less than perfect setup you will make casuals happy, but not harcore ('lesser' mortals getting their epic lewtz).

I think this is mainly an issue with player expectations; there should be a tier of gear that people who identify themselves as casuals should not expect to get.

I think Dynamis was a perfect example of a good balance between hardcore and casual players. If you were casual, you attended for 3 hours/week (admittedly all in one sitting) and had a chance at semi-epic gear. If you were hardcore you attended for currency and gradually built your way up to a Dynamis weapon, an epic weapon of such epicness that showed you were truly hardcore (or fishbotted/RMT'd enough gil to obtain them).

[Lienn]

Please refrain from making such definitive statements. As pointed Amyrae, Yoshi-P already said there will be content for "both" type of players. You CAN have content that pleases everyone, just look at that MMO with 14M subscribers.

No, man...a game cannot please everyone. Not a single game can. Every person has its own preferences so, unless you make a game with universal options where every person can set it the way they want, you won't please everyone.

An example is FFXI. It's a hell of a game...surely of of the top 5 FFs ever made...still, not everyone like it. FFVII? Awesome, but some don't like it either...Rock Band? Mario Kart? Cooking Mama? Resident Evil? The answer is always the same...no game can please everyone. The day someone discover a game who pleases everyone, he will take over the market.

And here we get to the point Xtash said...this proposal of "trying" to please everyone is actually what is f'ing up FFXIV...not because he's putting content oriented to certain player groups, but because he's splitting the effort between them. If you look at FFXI you will see that it is oriented to HC and party play...and this is why it was successful. They knew who they wanted to please so it was much easier to do it.

Here we have a proverb..."Those who try to please everyone pleases no one."...i'm not sure if there is an english version of it, but this says it all about what Yoshida is trying to do.

EDIT:

And you CAN NOT have servers to seggregate people.

Forgot to say...i agree completely with you about this. I support the global server concept, which means the very same servers to everyone. I'm against any kind of server seggregation, no matter if based on region, language or PvE/PvP or any other kind of preferences.

[AmyRae]

Here we have a proverb..."Those who try to please everyone pleases no one."...i'm not sure if there is an english version of it, but this says it all about what Yoshida is trying to do.

It doesn't apply here.

If you insist on an MMO that's so difficult that casual players will not play it, then the MMO won't make enough money to stay afloat. So, the consequence of not pleasing casual players, people keep the game alive through their vast numbers and treasure, is that hardcore players lose their game because there's not enough of them to support it through subscriptions.

Besides, there are plenty of examples out there where casual and hardcore content live side-by-side. That's just the reality of the situation.

[Lienn]

That "was" the reality...when people had no option. However, now the market is plenty of options...if they don't like here they just go to another game...

Assuming people will stay in a game they don't like is, at least, naive...also, just because someone play a game doesn't mean they actually like it...i myself played FFXI over 7 years and now i realize i never really liked it...i just had no better option since i am a console player.

[AmyRae]

That "was" the reality...when people had no option. However, now the market is plenty of options...if they don't like here they just go to another game...

Assuming people will stay in a game they don't like is, at least, naive...also, just because someone play a game doesn't mean they actually like it...i myself played FFXI over 7 years and now i realize i never really liked it...i just had no better option since i am a console player.

Put it another way. All the hardcore players could leave, and the game would still do well financially if casual players were enjoying themselves. You're overplaying your hand if you think that by threatening to leave, you're going to completely change the development philosophy behind this game. Yoshida wants hardcore players. But he wants casual players as well. Lots of them.

It's as simple as this: If you really can't abide any casual aspects to this game, then obviously this game is not for you.

[Silma]

As an "hardcore" player myself, i'll try to give a good idea of what i call difficulty.

Difficulty means teamwork.

• Have fights that requires several class types, not only BLM or only LNC+BLM
• The fight must provide each class with a way to be usefull. For example, a boss would be temporarily insensitive to offensive spells while at the same time taking extra damage from PUG Weapon Skills, etc.
• Have fights that requires actions from only a certain kind of Disciples, for example at a certain moment only disciples of Magic can activate that switch on the wall to create a shield that absorb damage, or at a certain moment only Disciples of War can walk on a plate on the floor that opens a door, etc.

Difficulty means preparation:

• Have Bosses randomly casting a certain magic. For example, a boss can cast Water or Lightning spells and this is determined by its color when you enter the arena. That means people need to have 2 sets of equipment in their inventory to protect themselves from each magic.
• Have bosses sucking MP or TP, so you need to bring in potions.
• Since bosses will use WS, have counter -WS, so people need to have that particular WS in their action bar to not take damage.

Difficulty means rewards:

• random loots from a loot table is so out-of-date and old-fashioned, please stop with it.
• Have people choose which item they want if they succeed, but then only ONE item will be given.
• Provide players with a way to be proud of their accomplishement other than equipment, should it be a Title "Slayer of Ifrit", a pet like in WoW, a pure cosmetic equipement (a helmet that looks like the Head of Ifrit), or even the possibility to transform your character into Ifrit itself why not ?
• As for more "casual" players, or less equiped or less skilled maybe, provide them with the possibility to get the same items but at a much slower pace. For example, everytime you fight boss X but loose, you gain 1 point. One item costs 50 points, etc.

This is just 0.1% of what is possible to do, and it all depends on their game engine and easyness of scripting things. We will have a better idea of what the devs are capable to do with the engine in the next few months i guess.

[Coglin]

OP seems to make this assumtion that everyone can be stereotyped into one of two catagories in each of there "demand" catagories. Not to mention asumes to tell us what we believe. Then goes on to assume to tell us, what will make this good for everybody.

Interesting how someone can assume to tell use what we want from a few threads. What we believe, and what wil be good for us, as individual players.

Alot of assumptions in this thread as a whole.

I really despise how posters try to do this, and pretend to represent the community, or various groups, or perspectives, or act as if they have the slightest idea what anyone and everyone wants because they think they read a few threads.

[Lienn]

Put it another way. All the hardcore players could leave, and the game would still do well financially if casual players were enjoying themselves. You're overplaying your hand if you think that by threatening to leave, you're going to completely change the development philosophy behind this game. Yoshida wants hardcore players. But he wants casual players as well. Lots of them.

It's as simple as this: If you really can't abide any casual aspects to this game, then obviously this game is not for you.

Well...you have no idea what i'm talking about, right? ^^:

So let's just leave it simple (hopefully simple enough): You can give a gift voucher as gift to anyone (this is Yoshida's proposal) but it rarely will please who received it...or you can buy a gift specific to that person...when you are specific the chance of you pleasing your target is much bigger...but if you give the gift to another person, it can potentially not please that second person...because it was chosen specifically to the first person.

So what i'm saying is that i support the idea of, instead giving a voucher that will rarely please the person, buy some specific gift targeting different people...and then let the person pick the one that pleases him the most. While the second way is more expensive, the success rate is way bigger than just giving a gift voucher because it was specific to that person...if the person picked that one is because he feels that that gift is the one who fits him best.

This is what i was talking about...focusing on target population instead of making generic content. I never said a thing about having exclusively HC or casual content in a game...i always has been talking about the where the dev team focus should be.

[Lucifer]

This is hilarious, seeing as most of the so-called "hardcores" don't really want a challenge, they want time sinks and convolution.

Says who?

You can have both types of content. Bring it on. If you don't like the type of content, don't do it.

I bet all the casuals will STILL want to do it because in the end, everybody wants to try those super challenges.

[AdvancedWind]

Oh, look. This thread. Again.

Says who?

You can have both types of content. Bring it on. If you don't like the type of content, don't do it.

I bet all the casuals will STILL want to do it because in the end, everybody wants to try those super challenges.

The point he made is that, to make a very stupid but good enough example, fishing for 1.000 hours is not a challenge at all, but is pretty "hardcore". And yes, every once in a while there are people proposing the kind of content that is just that: pure time sinks where the only "challenge" is having the kind of play time needed to complete it.

awesome stuff

This is a much better example of things that could be done, imo.