A(nother) Secret of the Lily Rework Thread

[NobleWinter]

I mentioned specifically that "Full Bloom" would reduce both Cast and Recast Time. It isn't meant to function like the Ast Malefic spells and solve clipping but instead give WHM a way to pinch out a single spell faster. Optimally, you would squeeze Full Bloom behind any instant spell since you could go over 30 seconds stacking 3 lilies without using any Cure spells and either Aero or Regen should wear off in that time frame. The Lily generating cast time would probably only come from completed spells and not interrupted ones tho since the time spent casting in these is undisputable. The RNG bit is to discourage needlessly spamming Cure because it won't be 100% effective and the cool down on Full Bloom would make it pointless to stack Lilies rapidly as well. All in all it's meant to reward the way top tier players play while giving a struggling WHM a little help too. Single target heal spells naturally leave enough space to slide in Full Bloom so it would make panic healing easier.

[Ghishlain]

My post was pretty hasty but mostly because I didn't know if changes to either if those would break upper level content.

Fluid Aura: The reason I suggested a splash heal wasn't because I thought we needed more heals but because it could have been tied into the Lily system if it were and only if the shield idea was too busted. I would much rather it became a shield and I really like the idea of it turning into Benison. You can then tie it into the lilies with things like extended duration per lily or improved defense % per lily.

Repose: A dampener or even a shifter but I have seen plenty of folks around the forums mentioning WHM lacks in this area so I figured some sort of threat reduction button would see more use. It fits as an oGCD and if the Lilies continue to effect oGCDs then it could benefit from the buffs and reductiins they bring.

You raise a good point with PoTD. I imagine they do indeed see use for high level solo play but if that's their only use...I would rather see them removed and the class otherwise tuned to compensate for their loss.

I only bring up the PotD thing because it's the only content I can think of off hand that may be affected by your changes. I don't think they're bad persay but I feel like we need something... more.

Honestly, if they prioritize diversifying the healers and tanks more, I think many of the DPS don't need much baseline changes moving forward into Not-Garlemald.

But god damn, do the tanks and healers need a facelift.

I feel some of us healers would be less worried about balance as long as each job was unique and fit a specific niche. We wouldn't want gulfs in the balance, but having small gaps would be okay and can easily be patched up here or there.

In order to fix the Lily system without encouraging improper play I think adding RNG to the Cure spells again is necessary. Making Cure 1 proc a Lily 90% of the time, Cure 2 proc 70%, and add Cure 3 at 50% for Secret of the Lillies without any changes to the ability recast reduction. This way a struggling White Mage will still see a lot of them but it isn't guaranteed. Secret of the Lily 2 would add the ability to attain a Lily from 10 Seconds of cumulative cast time. Stand still casting for 10 Secs and you get a Lily with no RNG to fuss over. Instant Cast spells wouldn't apply to this though. It encourages you to cast anything and Cure Spells would give you an extra chance for a Lily. At 68 I would have an Ability called "Full Bloom" (duration 10 secs and recast 20 secs) that sacrifices all held Lilies to reduce the Cast Time and Recast Time of your next spell by 15% per Lily consumed. At 3 Lilies you get a 45% reduction and this would be more beneficial the longer the cast time of the spell so Raise is an obvious choice. It could be weaved to increase the speed of anything and it would make Lilies apply to the entire toolkit for the WHM which is great since these 2 new Traits would spawn a lot more Lilies and subtly allow for an increase to the pDPS of WHM. Presence of Mind combined with Full Bloom would be amazing. It would still call for clipping occasionally unlike AST but the increased spell speed is a win overall. It would help separate WHM and AST into more distinct healers.

I mentioned specifically that "Full Bloom" would reduce both Cast and Recast Time. It isn't meant to function like the Ast Malefic spells and solve clipping but instead give WHM a way to pinch out a single spell faster. Optimally, you would squeeze Full Bloom behind any instant spell since you could go over 30 seconds stacking 3 lilies without using any Cure spells and either Aero or Regen should wear off in that time frame. The Lily generating cast time would probably only come from completed spells and not interrupted ones tho since the time spent casting in these is undisputable. The RNG bit is to discourage needlessly spamming Cure because it won't be 100% effective and the cool down on Full Bloom would make it pointless to stack Lilies rapidly as well. All in all it's meant to reward the way top tier players play while giving a struggling WHM a little help too. Single target heal spells naturally leave enough space to slide in Full Bloom so it would make panic healing easier.

I am in agreement with Moro about their assessment. I do like the idea of it and find it interesting but it still feels somewhat counter intuitive to optimized healer play. The "full bloom" ability itself can be useful for a "burn all the lilies" mechanic if we see a Lily rework that's more conducive to ABC-thought process that revolves around growing and burning lilies in a planned way.

[MoroMurasaki]

I mentioned specifically that "Full Bloom" would reduce both Cast and Recast Time. It isn't meant to function like the Ast Malefic spells and solve clipping but instead give WHM a way to pinch out a single spell faster. Optimally, you would squeeze Full Bloom behind any instant spell since you could go over 30 seconds stacking 3 lilies without using any Cure spells and either Aero or Regen should wear off in that time frame. The Lily generating cast time would probably only come from completed spells and not interrupted ones tho since the time spent casting in these is undisputable. The RNG bit is to discourage needlessly spamming Cure because it won't be 100% effective and the cool down on Full Bloom would make it pointless to stack Lilies rapidly as well. All in all it's meant to reward the way top tier players play while giving a struggling WHM a little help too. Single target heal spells naturally leave enough space to slide in Full Bloom so it would make panic healing easier.

I'm sorry, I just don't see how this helps. In my opinion it's doomed from the start based solely on the spells it procs from and the fact that latency would either make it abusable (if it counted slidecasted spells) or unusable (if minor lag could cause the 10sec timer to reset because your spell didn't queue properly) plus using any instant or oGCD in there (which would clip and halt lily generation) would punish you specifically for playing correctly.

I just don't like it. There's potential there for sure but this in it's current iteration wouldn't really help WHM in my opinion.