A(nother) Secret of the Lily Rework Thread

[Tridus]

Secrets of the Lily
Adds 10 resources to your Lily Gauge upon the successful execution of a spell while in combat. When 100 resources is accumulated, a Lily is added (maximum 3 can be stored)
Lilies will lower the recast time for Asylum, Assize, Divine Benison, or Tetragrammaton by a percentage corresponding to the number of Lilies stacked at time of action execution (at which time the Lilies are removed).

1 Lily: 4%
2 Lilies: 10%
3 Lilies: 20%

Secrets of the Lily II
Upon the successful execution of a HoT tick, add 3 resources to your Lily gauge (this can only occur once per server tick to prevent massive gauge building via Medica II)
Upon the successful execution of a DoT tick, add 3 resources to your Lily gauge (also can only occur once per server tick to prevent massive gain via Aero III)

This part is great.

Adjust Secrets of the Lily or a future third tier of the trait could be have the following text:

"Lilies will lower the recast time for Asylum, Assize, Divine Benison, or Tetragrammaton by a percentage corresponding to the number of Lilies stacked at time of action execution (at which time only a single Lily are removed)."

The skill ceiling balance would be trying to maintain three lilies to maximize the Lily bonuses while still being able to keep up with healing responsibilities. An added incentive could be tying a passive stacking healing and damage buff of 2% per Lily to further encourage Lily maintenance. The one fault of this style of gameplay is encouraging high risk which is not conducive to responsible healing.

This would be better. Aside from CDR still not being interesting, not wiping out all the lilies every time you blink would help make it feel like a resource that you're supposed to manage and care about instead of "if it does something, okay, if not, whatever", which is what it is right now.

This proposal is just an over-designed "make it work off DPS" suggestion. As I've said in maybe a half dozen threads accross GD and here, the gauges are to point players the correct direction of doing their role/job.

The lily gauge completely fails at this goal right now. It encourages you to play the job badly.

DPS is not a core part of the healer's job

Yes it is. Why do you think healer DPS was made easier in Stormblood? Hint: Developers don't make it easier to do something they don't want people to do.

hence none of their gauges deal with DPS.

Energy Drain, Bane, Balance, Spear, Arrow, and Lord of Crowns all may disagree with your assessment. The WHM gauge has nothing to do with DPS, but the WHM gauge is also functionally irrelevant when playing WHM.

It's not a limit break button where resources are consumed. You may not like that it promotes, what in your point of view is inefficient play, but it is what the dev's view is the correct role of the healer. Therefor asking for anything related to DPS to be involved with the lilies is promoting the idea that the WHM is a green DPS, and that is simply dredging up the "lazy healer" nonsense again.

No it's not. It's recognizing how the game is actually played, because that's the game the devs gave us. If they want people to focus on healing, maybe they shouldn't give us content like Swallows Compass where there isn't enough damage to ever require casting Cure II.

You seem to be mistaking your opinion of what healers should be with developer intent. They haven't told us what their intent with healer design in SB was. All we know for sure is their actions changed the game to make it easier to do across the board. They continued to do that with the recent AST changes.

These are not the actions of people who don't want healers to press DPS buttons.

Now putting "correct way of healing" aside. This is what I would change in your idea:

1. Cast any healing GCD
2. A resource bar is charged (similar to Beast Meter / Heat)
3. When 100 resources is generated, the WHM grows a Lily and the bar resets (WHM can store up to 3 total)


Secrets of the Lily
Adds 10 resources to your Lily Gauge upon the successful execution of a healing GCD spell that recovers HP. When 100 resources is accumulated, a Lily is added (maximum 3 can be stored)
Lilies will lower the recast time for Asylum, Assize, Divine Benison, or Tetragrammaton by a percentage corresponding to the number of Lilies stacked at time of action execution (at which time the Lilies are removed).

1 Lily: 4%
2 Lilies: 10%
3 Lilies: 20%

This is strictly worse than it is now, because instead of getting 1 lily per 1 cast of certain GCDs, you need TEN casts of a slightly wider selection of GCDs. This would simply cause people to get fewer lilies. And the effect of the lilies is still junk.

Secrets of the Lily II
Any GCD heal that recovers at least 10% HP, removes 5 seconds from all currently ticking oGCD recast timers (including role actions like Largesse, Swiftcast and Lucid Dreaming) until there is 10 seconds remaining. Per player healed. So an efficiently executed Medica/Medica II/Cure III will shave 20 secs off a light party and 40 secs off a full party. Can not recast Asylum while Asylum is still up. (Admittedly this could probably break Swiftcast and POM if there is no floor recast to using either.)

As everyone else has already said, comically overpowered. 40 seconds of a CD is a huge amount when WHM has so many 30-120 second cooldowns.

Lily I & II will have no direct positive or negative effect on DPS skills. If you want to instead use Swiftcast and PoM on DPS skills, go right ahead, that's your loophole to exploit.

Umm, 40 seconds off the cooldown of Assize is a DPS skill.

[Mahrze]

This proposal is just an over-designed "make it work off DPS" suggestion. As I've said in maybe a half dozen threads accross GD and here, the gauges are to point players the correct direction of doing their role/job.

I know its completely unrelated to the topic but MNK is a job who's gauge(s) doesn't direct them in anything other than telling them their GL "levels" and "stack" and both come from just pressing buttons which you can only do "orderly" because of forms.

And like everyone else has said, the fact that you can DPS as a healer without stance dancing as of SB clearly means DPS is part of the job now. #respectingcontent

Besides, lilies are not the only "useless" resource; PI is also pretty weak for a "signature patch" skill imo.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Besides, lilies are not the only "useless" resource; PI is also pretty weak for a "signature patch" skill imo.

They want to maintain this identity for WHM as a pure healer, but they're simply running out of different ways to heal.
I mean, there's only so many ways a single healer can get HP up, eventually it all just starts to look like silly gimmicks that are not worth your time.

Now, I'm not saying Plenary Indulgence is useless, because it is pretty nice in O8s and Ultimate, but you're right in that it's an extremely disappointing level 70 ability, to say the least.

[dejiko_san]

They want to maintain this identity for WHM as a pure healer, but they're simply running out of different ways to heal.
I mean, there's only so many ways a single healer can get HP up, eventually it all just starts to look like silly gimmicks that are not worth your time.

Now, I'm not saying Plenary Indulgence is useless, because it is pretty nice in O8s and Ultimate, but you're right in that it's an extremely disappointing level 70 ability, to say the least.

What they could have done, is make it a kind of aoe mini shield. You throw it on someone and the nearby people get a "splash" of it on them. Less powerful than the original target but still protected. We have water skill, it can be a water shield!

[Mahrze]

Now, I'm not saying Plenary Indulgence is useless, because it is pretty nice in O8s and Ultimate, but you're right in that it's an extremely disappointing level 70 ability, to say the least.

Oh I know it is not useless, hence the quotes. To add clarity, I mean how the skill doesn't actually have a UI element even though it has a resource (regardless of how convoluted af it is) that requires management and it was an additional quip at Kisai's "The UI points the way" silly point.

[Ceasaria]

What they could have done, is make it a kind of aoe mini shield. You throw it on someone and the nearby people get a "splash" of it on them. Less powerful than the original target but still protected. We have water skill, it can be a water shield!

I imagine putting Divine Benison on a player and then doing Fluid Aura on him to "splash" the shield over the team lol.

[Ghishlain]

This part is great.

This would be better. Aside from CDR still not being interesting, not wiping out all the lilies every time you blink would help make it feel like a resource that you're supposed to manage and care about instead of "if it does something, okay, if not, whatever", which is what it is right now.

Glad you approve

What they could have done, is make it a kind of aoe mini shield. You throw it on someone and the nearby people get a "splash" of it on them. Less powerful than the original target but still protected. We have water skill, it can be a water shield!

I wouldn't mind this. Heck, I wouldn't mind just more... Water things in general. The CNJ/WHM kit is very lacking in the Water department >>; I think the only spells / abilities I know that are considered Water affinity is Esuna and Fluid Aura (and heck, Esuna is now a cross role..).

Benison feels water like but I dunno if it counts as a subset of the "Holy" power that WHM gives.

[Ceasaria]

Benison feels water like but I dunno if it counts as a subset of the "Holy" power that WHM gives.

For Fluid Aura, Divine Benison and Thin Air, you can hear Water sound effect.
The others as Assize, Asylum, for me it's Light sound effect.

[Keridwyn]

As a casual healer I can't find more than extremely situational use for Fluid Aura and Repose outside of sometimes when I'm soloing in Eureka and get too close to an extra mob. They need to be changed up or shuffled around.

Fluid Aura: Would it be too OP if Fluid Aura was replaced by Divine Benison's effect? Would it break the game if Fluid Aura put a 15% HP shield on our selves/target every 30s? It could upgrade and be replaced by Divine Benison which could have either an extended duration or maybe absorb a higher percentage of HP.

Or, if that would be too powerful, what about turning it into a small splash cure? Just a 100 potency instant heal that would hit the primary and maybe targets in close proximity to it? It could even tie into the Lily system later on like Asylum, Assize, Tetra, and the other OGCD heals.

Repose: Instead of being a sleep spell could it possibly become an aggro dump? We could really use another one of those that's not tied to our mana.

Just spitballing here I'm not sure how these might impact endgame.

[MoroMurasaki]

Or, if that would be too powerful, what about turning it into a small splash cure? Just a 100 potency instant heal that would hit the primary and maybe targets in close proximity to it? It could even tie into the Lily system later on like Asylum, Assize, Tetra, and the other OGCD heals.

Repose: Instead of being a sleep spell could it possibly become an aggro dump? We could really use another one of those that's not tied to our mana.

Just spitballing here I'm not sure how these might impact endgame.

In my opinion WHM doesn't need any more potential healing, if anything our already amazing effective HPS could be why we see such a lack of literally anything else on the dps/utility side. Making Fluid Aura a heal is redundant but making it an early game DB could be interesting to start teaching new healers to weave an oGCD.

As for Repose - yes please! Or a threat queller like Diversion. Either would be really handy. We are the only healer without some sort of innate enmity management. I would prefer it at least go oGCD though then, seeing as AST and SCH don't need to do anything for their threat reductions.

Edit: I realize now this doesn't really tie in much to the OP but I still thought they were cool rehashes of otherwise unappreciated skills.