DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

[Lunaxia]

snip

You would naturally take aggro manipulation and deaths into account anyway? Nor do I see much changing if there are multiple bad DPS. It will still be evident by enrages/ kill speed. I won't be able to know for certain who is worse than the other, but if multiple DPS are that bad, does it matter?

no

I am not backpedaling. It wasn't addressed at you, and at this point, I have no reason to lie. It genuinely wasn't.

snip.

It's not much effort, as a healer my eyes are usually in that area anyway, particularly on AST. I've never even said it's my own preferred method of judging either; I also look at rotations, gear, buffs and the like. I just believe it can be used to loosely gather who's bringing the group down.

bloop

And those tools are? Was the 2.5k DRG in another post asleep at the keyboard, then?

snip

I can't speak for the other poster, but my original point was that the aggro meter can show the "garbage" player in a group. I never said it should be used in place of a parser.

[AegisKiddo]

Originally Posted by Lunaxia View Post
Unfortunately there aren't fflogs for Kugane Castle

Originally Posted by HoodRat
https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/14#boss=4511

Do you ever get that feeling your wrong, and when your default augment is to make a strawman; your called out on it, you move back to your default position. How about you think, before you type and maybe the constant trend of people disagreeing with you in this thread might change

[Lunaxia]

There is no substitute for a parser. None. To suggest otherwise is to spread misinformation.

I've answered what you've said before, but let me address this right now: I've never said otherwise, and you have grossly misunderstood my point if so.

snip

My original point still stands. Kugane was just an example; you can't get data from dungeons.

[MoroMurasaki]

I've answered what you've said before, but let me address this right now: I've never said otherwise, and you have grossly misunderstood my point if so.



My original point still stands. Kugane was just an example; you can't get data from dungeons.

At some point with so many people misunderstanding your point don't you think it falls to you to better articulate your point? Seems like it would save you and others a lot of headaches.

Had a friend on SAM in an o6n earlier today who I do comperable damage to on RDM. No fault to him, I've been playing RDM longer than he's been on SAM. He took a tankbuster to the face though - didn't manage his enmity well enough. The fact that he was the one at the top of the threat table doesn't mean he was outdpsing me, just that we used our enmity tools differently.

If you honestly feel that you can do your job while also tracking how often and during what parts of their rotations other players use their enmity tools in order to calculate where they would be without them on the threat list and then extrapolate that into an estimate of who is doing "garbage"dps you are a better player than me.

Also I have a bridge you may be interested in buying.

[Lunaxia]

woop

All I've ever said is that you don't really need a parser to see that a DPS is performing badly, and that terrible DPS is reflected in the enmity list. I never said, anywhere, that it's on par with or as reliable as a parser, or that it should be used in place of one.

It's not really difficult to see? It's not even a case of "tracking", it's fairly easy to notice the difference between someone that utilises Diversion/ Shadewalker etc. and someone not even using aggro tools sitting at the bottom of the list through most of the fight with a clear distinction between them and the rest of the group, especially if it's a higher performing job.

[MoroMurasaki]

snipped for length because I'm lazy.

I understand the direction you're trying to go here, humor me if you would be so kind. Sigma normal seems a happy middle ground. How do you pick out an underperforming dps?

This is still going on? Surprising. Look, you guys are arguing over a stupid comment that I made. It was dumb, offensive, and elitist as hell. Mayhaps it spun off from the original post, but nevertheless, it is still spinning off an incredibly offensive statement that I made. Can you all agree to let this die down? It was a mistake on my part.

Can you message me on discord? Please?

[Lunaxia]

I understand the direction you're trying to go here, humor me if you would be so kind. Sigma normal seems a happy middle ground. How do you pick out an underperforming dps?

In Sigma NM, I probably wouldn't notice since there aren't really any areas that would highlight a problem. It's more noticeable with DPS checks and enrages. I'd just look to see if anyone's noticeably lagging behind on the list, what job they are, are they using enmity dumps, etc. Then keep an eye on how they actually perform during the fight. Missed GCDs, that kind of thing.

whee.

Examples? And enmity management skills are used in openers, and if a DPS is creeping up on a tank. They're not up enough during any fight to be able to keep the enmity of a terrible player and a high-performing player on par for very long. The difference becomes visible at some point.

[kikix12]

All I've ever said is that you don't really need a parser to see that a DPS is performing badly, and that terrible DPS is reflected in the enmity list.

Reading the discussion from the side...that's exactly the point that people did (at least originally) counter.

You said that enmity can be used to see a DPS performing badly.
Others said it absolutely cannot be used to see a DPS performing badly, because the enmity of those that perform well is the same or lower if they use their enmity management skills better.

That's all. No one was saying anything about parser for a good while. They merely gave time and time again examples of how enmity doesn't mean a thing for anything other than tanking. Enmity shows only one bad thing in a DPS. Poor use of enmity management skills. That's all. It goes even further down the drain if there is any kind of spawn in the fight (or if it's a mid-dungeon pull) where the damage is variously spread between targets. At that point you could look at all the skill uses and buffs you want. There is 0 chance you could even roughly glance over it, unless you do nothing but switch targets to see all that enmity and try to deduce who did the hits and with what. In a boss with spawn, some may go for a spawn (one of few different, possibly), some may stick on the boss. Unless someone is going after a spawn solo, at which point you can visually compare the time it takes for him to kill it (if you saw and remember other DPS players doing the same feat), that completely messes up any estimation of how good or bad a player is based on enmity.

So yes. Your point was understood and it was countered repeatedly.


As for the original post...If you believe that you have poorly written the original post KaivaC...then simply edit it and elaborate on your stance so that everyone can see from the get-go what it is. Trying to explain yourself in latter posts without editing the original post cannot really do much.

[HyoMinPark]

All I've ever said is that you don't really need a parser to see that a DPS is performing badly, and that terrible DPS is reflected in the enmity list. I never said, anywhere, that it's on par with or as reliable as a parser, or that it should be used in place of one.

You are absolutely wrong. I can burst for anywhere from 8,000+ to 12,000+ on BRD, depending on how lucky I get in my opener with procs. I can Tactician immediately afterwards to drop my enmity to either 4th (when other DPS are using their enmity tools/tanks are Provoke+Shirking) or 8th (no one is using enmity tools so, when I drop 50% of my enmity, I drop to 8th)...and STILL be top DPS for a considerable minute, sometimes longer.

BRDs also creep up to 2nd fairly often because they burst every 80 seconds, and only have enmity dumps over quellers...yet will be fourth in terms of overall damage. How can you possibly tell all of this without a parser? You absolutely cannot.

What are you going to say to WHMs in Neo or God Kefka? They are generally second on enmity because of the sheer power of their heals, yet dead last on DPS? By the way, Lucid doesn't help enough to lower them by much the next time Almagest or Heartless Archangel comes around.

[Miste]

my original point was that the aggro meter can show the "garbage" player in a group.

No it can't.

End.