Sentinal is a thorn in our sides

[Exni]

To the OP: Sentinel is not hardly required for this fight. If you choose to not go, or allow other people to tell you str8 up wrong information, that's kinda on you. My GLD is lvl 3 I think(I only took it that high for Rampart, and I don't even use that in the fight either... even tho I was told I would at least need that too LOL). ALL I use is stoneskin, ALL you need is stoneskin, and a HP pool over 2300. Get SS up right before Hellfire (make sure you don't lose it to Vulcan Blast, or w/e that AoE was called), and as soon as he jumps in the middle, start tossing yourself the highest Cure you have ( or give one of your mages a heads up that you'll need a single Cure after Hellfire). Defender/Rampart will also save you a few extra HP, but not enough that you still won't be in need of a Cure right after Hellfire. Sentinel just makes it even more easy-mode.

[Tetsaru]

OP: I understand your pain. I wanted to be a tank when I first started this game, because I actually enjoy tanking and being the big, tough, near-indestructible guy in parties, so naturally, I go with GLA because hey, he carries a sword and shield, just like Paladin in FF11, and because naturally, a tank job SHOULD be carrying a shield and wearing heavy armor anyway. Well apparently MRD, the job that looks like it should just be mowing down large waves of enemies, is also a tank, and currently a better one because of its moveset, and overall more damage, which equates to more enmity, and if you can't hold an enemy's hate, then you can't be a tank, no matter how much HP, defense, or survivability you have, because nothing's attacking you. I ended up powerleveling MRD with my LS, luckily, but needless to say, I was pissed because the job I wanted to play ended up being a different job, or possibly even several jobs, when you add things like Cure, Sacrifice, Second Wind, etc., and eventually, when you start leveling multiple jobs and using abilities from all of them, you lose your original class identity - your ROLE in a Role-Playing Game - because everyone will eventually just get all the best abilities and turn into an endgame super-omni "I'm better than everyone else because I can do anything" job. That, and since I managed to get an Ifrit's Harpoon on my first (and so far, only) win against Ifrit, people in my LS are now wanting me to level up LNC to fight him instead of letting me tank or DD as MRD. I mean, why do I have to be a Lv50 LNC just for one fight... so I can avoid Sear and out-parse everyone else's damage output by stabbing Ifrit in the ass with Doomspike II and Chaos Thrust? Really??

That said, I'm happy to see the devs say that they're not only giving more identity and uniqueness to the jobs with this next patch, but also merging GLA and Sentinel (the job, not the ability), and hopefully improving it overall, because it desperately needs it. A lot of our moves are currently very underpowered (Riot Blade pacifies you, yet only hits one target and does less damage than weapon skills of other jobs with no penalties? Really??), and not being able to parry with a shield equipped is just stupid, especially when we're designed to mitigate damage.

And finally, Sentinel (the ability) is not 100% necessary for the Ifrit fight, but it definitely helps. Things like Rampart, Stoneskin, Defender, Obsess, Tempered Will, and Second Wind also work, as long as you keep your health up. That and Fire Resistance gear, and I guess trying to take out more Infernal Nails, but it seems like most parties only take out 1, maybe 2.

[Kinseykinz]

To the OP: Sentinel is not hardly required for this fight. If you choose to not go, or allow other people to tell you str8 up wrong information, that's kinda on you. My GLD is lvl 3 I think(I only took it that high for Rampart, and I don't even use that in the fight either... even tho I was told I would at least need that too LOL). ALL I use is stoneskin, ALL you need is stoneskin, and a HP pool over 2300. Get SS up right before Hellfire (make sure you don't lose it to Vulcan Blast, or w/e that AoE was called), and as soon as he jumps in the middle, start tossing yourself the highest Cure you have ( or give one of your mages a heads up that you'll need a single Cure after Hellfire). Defender/Rampart will also save you a few extra HP, but not enough that you still won't be in need of a Cure right after Hellfire. Sentinel just makes it even more easy-mode.

Yes, it is doable without Sentinel however, as he pointed out 'give one of your mages a heads up that you'll need a single Cure after Hellfire' This makes you a burden. You might not want to think it, be told it or consider it BUT asking another class to go out of their way or change what they are supposed to be doing (either Cure III/Curaga II bomb on the tank) is putting more strain on the whole party. So yes, it's doable without...but only because other people in the party cover for you. (PS, it costs a healer less mp to let you die and raise you...esp since another DD should raise you since the healer usually can't reach you as easily nor should they waste MP on you) And if you are playing as a mage...you pretty much DO need it...

...or wait until after patch 1.20 goes live

[Exni]

Yes, it is doable without Sentinel however, as he pointed out 'give one of your mages a heads up that you'll need a single Cure after Hellfire' This makes you a burden. You might not want to think it, be told it or consider it BUT asking another class to go out of their way or change what they are supposed to be doing (either Cure III/Curaga II bomb on the tank) is putting more strain on the whole party. So yes, it's doable without...but only because other people in the party cover for you. (PS, it costs a healer less mp to let you die and raise you...esp since another DD should raise you since the healer usually can't reach you as easily nor should they waste MP on you) And if you are playing as a mage...you pretty much DO need it...

...or wait until after patch 1.20 goes live

Actually it only takes one mage to toss a cure on the tank after hellfire, and that's if its needed (as he often starts jumping). Any of the other mages could get the heal off on the DD, or the DD could heal themselves (they shouldnt be taking any extra dmg right after Hellfire anyway). That's not what I'd consider a burden on the party. And no, a mage doesn't need it at all, in fact that's primarily what I was talking about.. I usually go as main heal, and haven't used Sentinel once. Too many wins to count.

[Kinseykinz]

Actually it only takes one mage to toss a cure on the tank after hellfire, and that's if its needed (as he often starts jumping). Any of the other mages could get the heal off on the DD, or the DD could heal themselves (they shouldnt be taking any extra dmg right after Hellfire anyway). That's not what I'd consider a burden on the party. And no, a mage doesn't need it at all, in fact that's primarily what I was talking about.. I usually go as main heal, and haven't used Sentinel once. Too many wins to count.

So in that case, go in as a whole party w/o Sentinel...even tank (since usually people use MRD tank, why require him to level GLA if no one else feels the need) ...oh and take people who've NEVER beat it before while you're at it. Since it's those with no experience in this battle you are telling 'eh, you don't need it.'

I've done this fight with plenty of people w/o Sentinel.... I ALWAYS have to cover for them and do more healing which means waste more MP than I would need to do if they just spent the time like most people did to level a class for an ability that is quite frankly, just useful to have overall. Not to mention forcing Mages to drop a lot of Cure Bombs can redistribute hate forcing them to have more Erruptions happen under them. (Which means Mage spends more time running, isn't near tank and can miss critical heals) Yes, we still could complete the fight without everyone having this ability, but it made things more difficult.

If I'm helping you, I don't want to work harder because you were lazy. Keep in mind, newer folks in the fight rely on Sentinel to get them out of other binds such as animation lag etc. It is actually easier to do battle w/o Sentinel once you have a couple wins WITH Sentinel under your belt as you will have the fight/battle mechanics down. Those asking 'Do I really need Sentinel' at this point are asking because the 1. Have tried the fight and haven't beaten it yet (IE sentinel could help make the difference for them) or 2. Haven't tried fight yet because they haven't had time/a class rank 50 etc. While this doesn't make them an untalented noob by any sense, there is a learning curve to this battle. Sentinel makes this learning curve easier. So yes, it IS still prudent to advise people new to this fight to spend the time and learn Sentinel.

Lastly, by taking people into the fight that lack sentinel, you are more or less saying you need 2+ (ideally 3) Mages....esp if one or more of the mages lack Sentinel. This is of course a viable strategy BUT more mages=less DD. Less DD means you are going to kill slower, which means you are wasting peoples time on a low drop reward/15 min. down time between each fight fight. So again, yeah plausable w/o Sentinel...and the more talented the players, the easier it is without sentinel but still easier with this one ability you can get between leves/parties/pling with friends in 3-14 days.

PS: none of this matters much anymore with new battle abilities/action bar setting coming out. But people saying 'Yeah you should learn Sentinel' aren't trying to be dicks...nor do we feel that the fight is 'unbeatable' without it. It just makes it THAT much easier, and in general is a very good ability to have.

[Exni]

So in that case, go in as a whole party w/o Sentinel...even tank (since usually people use MRD tank, why require him to level GLA if no one else feels the need) ...oh and take people who've NEVER beat it before while you're at it. Since it's those with no experience in this battle you are telling 'eh, you don't need it.'

I've done this fight with plenty of people w/o Sentinel.... I ALWAYS have to cover for them and do more healing which means waste more MP than I would need to do if they just spent the time like most people did to level a class for an ability that is quite frankly, just useful to have overall. Not to mention forcing Mages to drop a lot of Cure Bombs can redistribute hate forcing them to have more Erruptions happen under them. (Which means Mage spends more time running, isn't near tank and can miss critical heals) Yes, we still could complete the fight without everyone having this ability, but it made things more difficult.

If I'm helping you, I don't want to work harder because you were lazy. Keep in mind, newer folks in the fight rely on Sentinel to get them out of other binds such as animation lag etc. It is actually easier to do battle w/o Sentinel once you have a couple wins WITH Sentinel under your belt as you will have the fight/battle mechanics down. Those asking 'Do I really need Sentinel' at this point are asking because the 1. Have tried the fight and haven't beaten it yet (IE sentinel could help make the difference for them) or 2. Haven't tried fight yet because they haven't had time/a class rank 50 etc. While this doesn't make them an untalented noob by any sense, there is a learning curve to this battle. Sentinel makes this learning curve easier. So yes, it IS still prudent to advise people new to this fight to spend the time and learn Sentinel.

Lastly, by taking people into the fight that lack sentinel, you are more or less saying you need 2+ (ideally 3) Mages....esp if one or more of the mages lack Sentinel. This is of course a viable strategy BUT more mages=less DD. Less DD means you are going to kill slower, which means you are wasting peoples time on a low drop reward/15 min. down time between each fight fight. So again, yeah plausable w/o Sentinel...and the more talented the players, the easier it is without sentinel but still easier with this one ability you can get between leves/parties/pling with friends in 3-14 days.

PS: none of this matters much anymore with new battle abilities/action bar setting coming out. But people saying 'Yeah you should learn Sentinel' aren't trying to be dicks...nor do we feel that the fight is 'unbeatable' without it. It just makes it THAT much easier, and in general is a very good ability to have.

Actually, I was telling any and everyone they don't need it. Not sure what your entire first paragraph has to do with anything I said, or the OP said for that matter..

If you are covering for your DD it has NOTHING to do w/ Sentinel, as your DD need to avoid taking dmg better. That actually is just a simple case of "Learn2Play". As I said before, I was once a noob to the fight as well and I NEVER used Sentinel.. if I can learn to regularly survive the encounter without dying once on both CNJ and LNC, then why couldn't other people? It has nothing to do with laziness, as I could have completed more content and leveled more classes than you have, and still not have/use Sentinel.. If anything, you could call it lazy to rely on a tanking cross-class ability that the Dev's are practically removing, that only takes a few hrs to grind to get... just to make it easy-mode. I have nothing against using Sentinel, but don't try to claim that we must be lazy because we don't need it..