And so it begins again

[Miste]

You quite clearly care very much.

I care about posting my opinions and challenging people when they make claims with no facts. In general challenging people to prove their claims when it reeks of exaggeration like your OP.

There isn't much point in my replying to this. You obviously have some sort of underlying issue with me from a previous debate I'm not even sure I remember

I mean...if you are not going to read my replies then of course there is no point in you bothering to reply. Since you end up posting things that are completely incorrect even though I already explained myself to you.

I dislike when people post paranoid exaggerations which if you know my post history you'll see more of it. Exiled_Tonberry knows since I used to nag at her about getting too paranoid and making exaggerations or claiming stuff that can't be proven.

You aren't a special case, Lunaxia. If anyone else posted this same thread, guess what? I'd be here to challenge them.

It isn't about you no matter how much you think it is. It is about what you posted in this thread's OP.

I may choose my words differently and be more blunt because of what happened in the past since I honestly think you can handle it with all that salty ad hominem you threw at me back then; it's fine if you don't remember I don't care, but I'd still be here if the OP wasn't made by you so don't kid yourself.

I just found it amusing you seemed offended by my opinion that you are lying to exaggerate the situation; something that isn't even close to how rude you were to me in the past /shrug

So I decided to explain why I was so blunt and open with my opinion on this since you kept bringing up the "liar" thing as such a huge sticking point in most of your posts in here.

If my assertion is vague to you because I don't gather screenshots and statistics and note times in preparation for internet arguments, then that's your problem.

I didn't say post screenshots of the ones you initially saw because you already said you didn't take any. Again, actually reading what I post will help you in actually replying properly.

I said your explanation is vague because you can't even recall in your MIND how many groups you saw in PF excluding WHM to answer questions being posed to you in here.

If this was such a big deal did you not even count them when you apparently kept seeing more of them?? You don't even have a recollection at all?

Like others have said...you said a "large amount of groups" are excluding WHMs since the patch dropped.

This thread was made over 2 days ago...you could have taken some screenshots after you posted it since people were questioning your claims.

You claimed it was a large amount of groups so how come you won't go take screenshots?? They must be there in the PF if you believe your own claim right? Even someone from Chaos above took screenshots of the PF, why can't you to prove what you claimed in OP??

But if you're waiting for me to say my own eyes were wrong to please you, you'll be waiting a while.

Nope...and hopefully this is the last time I need to explain this to you...because at this point it seems you are being willfully obtuse.

Mandatory AST placement has returned, and a large number of groups are dropping the pretense altogether and are back to excluding WHM entirely for SCH/ AST.

I'm waiting for you to prove this claim you made.

So do it or concede you have no facts to back up your claim.

[Lunaxia]

snip

I appreciate the sentiment behind your response, but the purpose of this thread has been largely misunderstood. I've already said I don't care if people believe me, and if I were ever inclined to, it vanished with the subsequent replies. I saw what I saw. If it isn't reflected in other people's experiences, then that's only a good thing for WHM. I'm not so optimistic, clearly. But I'm not putting my time into convincing people I don't really care for, especially when they can and already have made up their own minds.

snip.

I raid when I can, and I'm familiar with the Kefka mechanics. I guess I just don't see it as much of a consolation that we have one duty where our level 70 skill isn't useless/ overkill and can be replaced without much issue when the fight becomes more familiar. From this thread, some people are comfortable with WHM being the "prog healer" (though even during 1 - 3, it didn't feel necessary) but I still find it needs more to be on par with the other healers.

girl...

I've said everything I'm going to say. You're vastly overestimating your own opinion and how much I actually care what you think, and the time and energy I'm willing to put into changing that.

Perhaps what I said was rude. I'm not in the habit of making offensive or personal slights, but if what I said was so terrible it affected you to the point you've held onto it so long, then I'm sorry.

[Miste]

You're vastly overestimating your own opinion and how much I actually care what you think

If you don't care what I think then why have you continued to reply to me every time I address you?

You can just ignore me if you want. It doesn't really matter to me since it is quite obvious you don't want to be bothered to actually try to defend and prove what you posted in your OP...so to me I am kind of confused why you even bothered to post it. I basically met the goal I came in here for and that is to show that what you posted in the OP of this thread is an exaggeration.

You should make threads about real WHM issues to help the job, instead of this exaggeration which just wasted time... or simply switch jobs if you don't like how it plays.

Perhaps what I said was rude. I'm not in the habit of making offensive or personal slights, but if what I said was so terrible it affected you to the point you've held onto it so long, then I'm sorry.

You didn't need to apologize, since it was a long time ago, nice of you to do so though. I wouldn't have even mentioned it, but you really seemed to take my opinion harshly over something very minor compared to how I've seen you post in the past so it seemed like I should explain why I didn't feel the need to overly sugarcoat it for you.

You might be putting too much stock in your ability to affect me with weak insults on a forum. It simply means I won't likely be overly friendly to you because you lost a lot of respect in my eyes after that which affects how I would respond to you; way more likely I'll be blunt with my opinions rather than re-word them to try to be more diplomatic.

Having a good memory doesn't mean I was so terribly affected by the rude comments you made in the past to carry a torch around about it ever since, but since I don't forget due to my good memory I also don't feel the need to be overly sugary to someone who openly threw ad hominem at me. /shrug

You did apologize even though you didn't have to though so at least it shows you in a better light to me now. I also apologize if anything I said offended or hurt you.

[Lunaxia]

snip

The same reason anyone would when accused of making up a story. And your furious insistence I admit to doing so was a little funny, admittedly. In terms of what I "should" do - what I post about WHM, or anything, for that matter, doesn't have to meet your specifications. You seem to have an unwarranted sense of self-importance concerning yourself and your impact on other people. You are not the judge and jury of this forum.

I don't take offence at being called a liar. I took issue with it being the only logical conclusion because it doesn't tally with others' experiences. I have to say, it feels an awful lot like you're projecting the animosity and upset you've felt towards me onto me to hide the fact you've been bothered by this.

You did apologize even though you didn't have to though so at least it shows you in a better light to me now.

I wish I could say the same.

[Miste]

In terms of what I "should" do - what I post about WHM, or anything, for that matter, doesn't have to meet your specifications. You seem to have an unwarranted sense of self-importance concerning yourself and your impact on other people. You are not the judge and jury of this forum.

LOL...oh you are a gem, this post is hilarious.

I never said you had to meet my specifications, but that doesn't stop me from calling you out on things you post. Don't post in a public forum making claims like this if you can't handle people challenging your claims.

Can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

I am not the judge and jury of this forum, of course not, but I have just as much right to post as you do don't I? I can post whatever I want to as long as it follows the forum rules. If you don't want to answer me no one can force you, but it doesn't mean I have to stop posting or asking.

You are free to ignore me like I said before, which considering you said you don't care what I think wouldn't that be easy for you to do? Yet...here you are again replying every time I address you.

it feels an awful lot like you're projecting the animosity and upset you've felt towards me onto me to hide the fact you've been bothered by this.

Feel that way if you wish to. I assure you your assumptions about how I feel are incorrect.

If it helps you sleep at night though, sure, go for it; pretend to yourself that you hurt my feelings and that is the whole reason I refuse to accept your exaggeration and not because you are posting nonsense and refuse to prove what you claiming in a public forum with your posts lol

I wish I could say the same.

You did apologize even though you didn't have to though so at least it shows you in a better light to me now. I also apologize if anything I said offended or hurt you.

I noticed you snipped that part and didn't keep the part where I also apologized if I caused any offense to you.

I was completely polite to you and this is how you reply? rofl

I thought we were making some good progress and you just threw yourself back into the ditch of mud.

I thought maybe you changed from before, but your true colours are popping out now since this whole reply you made is focused on me as a person instead of the actual points of the argument in this thread.

I have "unwarranted sense of self-importance" just because I disagree with you and call you out for claiming things that you have no evidence of....pfft lololol that made my day, thank you! I haven't laughed that hard in awhile.

So whatever, be hostile to me, I can take it, but also ends me giving any cares about being nice to you. I take back the apology. You have such a terrible attitude. Have a nice day!

[Lunaxia]

I never said you had to meet my specifications.

You should make threads about real WHM issues to help the job, instead of this exaggeration which just wasted time... or simply switch jobs if you don't like how it plays.

This is a real issue to me. It doesn't have to meet your criteria for being a valid concern. It doesn't have to be set out in a way that pleases you. You're at liberty to disagree with it.

manip.

You can post what you like. No one said otherwise.

You actively go out of your way to get me to reply to you, so there are some odd mixed messages here.

Feel that way if you wish to.

I don't think for a minute that your problems towards me are entirely behind your disagreement. But if you're going to pretend there's no grudge I'm just going to lol.

snip!

The apology didn't mean much to me in the context of your post, unfortunately. I was merely being honest. You came in here holding a grudge, accused me of lying and "spreading nonsense", demanded evidence from me I didn't have to give you - and at that point, didn't particularly want to - used it to say I'm making everything up, claimed I personally attacked you, continue to keep this going for what I can only assume is your own ego when I've said I have nothing for you, attempt to tell me how I should post to be acceptable to you, go on to assume your opinion of me has any relevance here or to me, and rather manipulatively twist your own upset onto me. I don't "sugarcoat" either, and I don't think much of you for it. Just pity.

My comment on your self-importance has nothing to do with our disagreement, and I think you know that. You think too highly of yourself and the value of your opinion, and use it as a tool in your arguments against other people, much like you are now.

snip

I don't. I made this venting frustration the other night. I defended myself when I was accused of making everything up. "I think you're wrong about this" and "you're lying/ trolling" are two very different things. It's mostly been the latter.

"Mocked an AST buff", it was a poor joke referencing the AST situation from HW and WHM being regularly ignored by buffs, please calm down.

[Beelhi]

This is a real issue to me. It doesn't have to meet your criteria for being a valid concern.

I saw a few BLM's that never did any aoe rotation on 5-6+ mobs so I'm seriously worried about how a large group of BLM's play <---- see how rediciulous that sounds?

You came in here holding a grudge, accused me of lying and "spreading nonsense", demanded evidence from me I didn't have to give you

You know, USUALLY when people claim things, they need to back things up with evidence because if you're not, whilst others are providing evidence that you are wrong, it will lead to a thread calling you an overreacting liar. A few people that demand AST/SCH combo is not the end of WHM. And as alot of us have shown you, most parties already have WHM or don't care about what healer they get.

[Miste]

This is a real issue to me. It doesn't have to meet your criteria for being a valid concern. It doesn't have to be set out in a way that pleases you. You're at liberty to disagree with it.

Are you serious? It's an issue just because I made a suggestion to you?

You do realize I didn't say "you have to".

I was making a suggestion to you that I feel would better benefit your time and energy which you are free to ignore just as I am free to suggest it.

You actively go out of your way to get me to reply to you, so there are some odd mixed messages here.

How can I go out of my way to get you to reply to me? I can't force you to reply. You said you don't care what I think so if that is true how can anything I say get you to reply??

This is getting ridiculous....also I'm not really going out of my way...I have been replying solely based on what you reply to me since the beginning of this and also explaining why I posted the opinion in the way that I did since you were so stuck on the "liar" thing.

I don't think for a minute that your problems towards me are entirely behind your disagreement. But if you're going to pretend there's no grudge I'm just going to lol.

You do you. It doesn't make any difference to me what you need to do to assure yourself. I already fully explained this twice.

The apology didn't mean much to me in the context of your post, unfortunately.

It was quite obvious from your response to my apology that you were simply too salty to accept it, so /shrug, I figured the whole thing was over after those two posts, you apologized, I apologized, but then you came back with the sodium out of no where.

I guess your initial apology wasn't sincere and was just derisive otherwise you wouldn't be so hostile immediately after I also apologized to you; which was sincere by the way. It's too bad I really thought we got somewhere.

I was merely being honest. You came in here holding a grudge, accused me of lying and "spreading nonsense", demanded evidence from me I didn't have to give you - and at that point, didn't particularly want to - used it to say I'm making everything up, claimed I personally attacked you, continue to keep this going for what I can only assume is your own ego when I've said I have nothing for you, attempt to tell me how I should post to be acceptable to you, go on to assume your opinion of me has any relevance here or to me, and rather manipulatively twist your own upset onto me. I don't "sugarcoat" either, and I don't think much of you for it. Just pity.

I was merely being honest too, so what's your point?

I already explained myself multiple times, so I mean do go on, this is popcorn worthy stuff right here. You obviously really cannot handle when people disagree with you or challenge things you claim in posts. Also all this rant here is stuff I have already explained. So, /shrug no point in repeating myself, like I said keep going if you want to, it is amusing.

I am really REALLY confused how you are offended that I used the word "should" and made a suggestion.

Pity me if you like. I am honored to be in your thoughts~

My comment on your self-importance has nothing to do with our disagreement, and I think you know that. You think too highly of yourself and the value of your opinion, and use it as a tool in your arguments against other people, much like you are now.

So if anyone disagrees with you or challenges your claims they simply have too huge an ego, value their own opinion too much, and are just using it as a tool against people.

Okay, gotcha! I totally understand. I forgot people can't disagree with each other without all of that. My bad.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I appreciate the sentiment behind your response, but the purpose of this thread has been largely misunderstood. I've already said I don't care if people believe me, and if I were ever inclined to, it vanished with the subsequent replies. I saw what I saw. If it isn't reflected in other people's experiences, then that's only a good thing for WHM. I'm not so optimistic, clearly. But I'm not putting my time into convincing people I don't really care for, especially when they can and already have made up their own minds.

So you made a thread spouting the doom and gloom of WHM, made snide remarks at SE and mocked another AST buff yet don't care if people believe anything you say? Why make a thread then? The entire purpose behind a forum is discussion. If you wanted a personal blog where no one can challenge your opinion, create one on your lodestone page and turn off comments. You are being called a liar on the basis of when asked for proof in response to numerous conflicting evidence, you not only balk but change your entire argument to "I don't care if you believe me."

Truth hurts, hun. And in this case, it looks like you overreacted to a couple PFs and have desperately tried to save face instead of admitting you jumped the gun.