What is casual / hardcore player?

[Sephrick]

Of course, this... and the following.

Hardcore = valuing the journey (levels and midgame content) to the destination (endgame content).
Casual = can't get their head out of their butt to understand the journey is just as important as the destination.

That's a little bit of a cheap shot.

It wouldn't be so bad if SE designed an actual journey.

Mass killing weak mobs for weeks upon months does not equate a "journey."

Make level a series of quests that requires a team to complete and we're talking. Something like XI's Assault system, but with exp rewards instead of gear. (EDIT: Actually, make it still give points for gear or a "training voucher" that functions like an exp scroll. That way they can cap it, and everyone can get what they want out of it and there's still incentive to go back and repeat the old quests).

I just don't get how people could want to go through that BS system of killing the same mob for 10 levels at a time.

[Dragon]

That's a little bit of a cheap shot.

It wouldn't be so bad if SE designed an actual journey.

Mass killing weak mobs for weeks upon months does not equate a "journey."

Make level a series of quests that requires a team to complete and we're talking. Something like XI's Assault system, but with exp rewards instead of gear. (EDIT: Actually, make it still give points for gear or a "training voucher" that functions like an exp scroll. That way they can cap it, and everyone can get what they want out of it and there's still incentive to go back and repeat the old quests).

I just don't get how people could want to go through that BS system of killing the same mob for 10 levels at a time.

You must put words into people's mouth quite often, you're quite awesome at it. I am well aware that there is no journey in XIV right now, but unlikely for the same reasons you make (as undoubtedly, FFXI was in fact quite the journey pre-abyssea).

[Sephrick]

You must put words into people's mouth quite often, you're quite awesome at it. I am well aware that there is no journey in XIV right now, but unlikely for the same reasons you make (as undoubtedly, FFXI was in fact quite the journey pre-abyssea).

No. XI pre- and post- Abyssea was the same. Stand in place and repeat minimal actions until you're at cap. That's not a journey, that's doing random crap that is completely disjointed from any semblance of a story to get the the next hurdle.

And I didn't put words in your mouth. You said "casuals have their heads up their asses because they don't like the journey."

Currently XIV's "journey" is just like XI's. In other words, there isn't one. But that has nothing to do with how quickly one levels. It could take a full year to ding 50. It doesn't change the fact that, just like in XI, all one has to do is engage in the same mindless unchallanging mass slaughter of random mobs to get there.

To me, that's not a journey. It's just a very blatant time sink devoid of content.

[Jennestia]

No. XI pre- and post- Abyssea was the same. Stand in place and repeat minimal actions until you're at cap. That's not a journey

I recall quite the journey when I first began (in 2002) then going through all of the storylines with friends and taking on all of the content that were tied to the story (e.g eventually unlocking end-game content.) There's more to it but XIV's current journey is really nothing because they're eventually trying to cater to people who believe the game is only in the instances or how quick you're propelled to level cap.

Post abyssea you level to 30 then hit cap, most people don't even bother with doing the story anymore.

[Dragon]

No. XI pre- and post- Abyssea was the same. Stand in place and repeat minimal actions until you're at cap. That's not a journey, that's doing random crap that is completely disjointed from any semblance of a story to get the the next hurdle.

And I didn't put words in your mouth. You said "casuals have their heads up their asses because they don't like the journey."

Currently XIV's "journey" is just like XI's. In other words, there isn't one. But that has nothing to do with how quickly one levels. It could take a full year to ding 50. It doesn't change the fact that, just like in XI, all one has to do is engage in the same mindless unchallanging mass slaughter of random mobs to get there.

To me, that's not a journey. It's just a very blatant time sink devoid of content.

Nah, FFXI was most definitely a journey. But you of course wouldn't know that because you just went with the mainstream opinions about leveling, and chances are you never bothered socializing in any party; as a matter of fact, if you want to define a journey as something you're doing that's not repeated, then I have news for you: no mainstream MMORPG/RPG is a journey at all. At the end of the day, they all are repeating content. Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, but most especially SWTOR (for all it is is just another grind, but with lamer graphics, lamer animations, and the lamest storyline ever put together, and this is coming from a BioWare/KOTOR fan that was waiting to just beta test for over two years now), are not filled with a journey by your silly definition. Grinds can be and necessarily are in fact journeys, just not necessarily so for the typical casual player.

Oh you did put words into my mouth by insinuating that I suggested FFXIV had a journey, though I've to admit it has a much better journey than SWTOR could ever possibly have.

[Sephrick]

Nah, FFXI was most definitely a journey. But you of course wouldn't know that because you just went with the mainstream opinions about leveling, and chances are you never bothered socializing in any party; as a matter of fact, if you want to define a journey as something you're doing that's not repeated, then I have news for you: no mainstream MMORPG/RPG is a journey at all. At the end of the day, they all are repeating content. Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, but most especially SWTOR (for all it is is just another grind, but with lamer graphics, lamer animations, and the most lame-ass storyline ever put together, and this is coming from a BioWare/KOTOR fan that was waiting to just beta test for over two years now), are not filled with a journey by your silly definition. Grinds can be and necessarily are in fact journeys, just not for the typical casual player.

Oh you did put words into my mouth by insinuating that I suggested FFXIV had a journey, though I've to admit it has a much better journey than SWTOR could ever possibly have.

Nah, there's a difference engaging battles and mindless slaughter. That's the difference for me. If it's a "journey" I want to feel that I'm participating in gameplay at all times.

CoP, level cap quests, coffer key hunting, Assaults, Nyzul Isle. Those were all a "journey" because they took time but had story around them.

Killing 30,000 little blue crabs was in no way a "journey" because it was inconsequential and had no bearing on Vana'diel.

And I never said you were suggestion XIV had a journey. I merely said your "heads in their asses" line was a cheap shot then presented my thoughts on what a "journey" should be.

[Jennestia]

CoP, level cap quests, coffer key hunting, Assaults, Nyzul Isle. Those were all a "journey" because they took time but had story around them.

Would you rather it be called peregrinations? CoP alone was one of the biggest journeys in FFXI and it's not because of time commitment either -- Not only was it also the first real year of XI being live out west, it's also the first real showcase of an active storyline in an MMO at that time. A journey in terms of gaming is indeed about doing quests, playing with friends, watching your character grow not only in terms of gameplay but as a character and so on.

XIV lacks that aspect, while it is only the first storyline, even the vanilla storyline of XI in comparison had much more character growth. A journey is just something that's done to reach a goal, when you're propelled to end-game and then the game 'begins'..that's not a journey in this sense.

This is why casual gamers are generally the ones hardcore gamers look down on, because they "have no time for it" yet want to play an MMORPG. There's nothing wrong with it, but this is why there's a very obvious rift between Hardcore and Casual gamers even though those terms in itself is your own perception.

[TheFatHousecat]

That's a little bit of a cheap shot.

You take enough cheap shots of your own; I think Dragon's entitled to them just as much as you are ;3