The premium app is what finally made me unsub.

[Ruf]

A quick consideration I had is that while some are harping on it making some users p2w by better managing the market board, there is something of note that isnt addressed. P2W models are almost always self serving. That is to say if I buy a powerup that gives me better stats than a free user, that power up is going to snowball ME to be even stronger longterm. If people have teh ability to manage their retainer inventories and put stuff up on teh MB and then price modify at will (should they pay), the likely hood is that people will UNDERCUT other people. This means, broadly, that overtime, MB prices should drop a bit as people attempt to UC each other. Thats beneficial to the average MB buyer..

Not really beneficial for the average mb user as actually the players that do a capital on hoarding WILL buy all the undercutted stocks until it run out & then flip it back to x3 the initial sale if not x5 just like irl wheres its becoming ridiculous nowadays.Many players do OR / do not know what an item is worth so that is right there what balance things out & so in the end poor ppl get more poor & rich ppl get richer, let me give you that example, say an item is used in a low level synth, its not worth much for a low lvl crafter, therefore they will sell it cheap because they dont care, they only gathered it for gathering xp or (first time discovery)... but on the other hand the high lvl crafter can use that for a higher lvl synth which on the final form = a lot of gils, so instead of going out there, waiting on a time node, he will just buy the cheap undercutted items, then synth the items he wants to without even gathering & then make a lot on your "average mb user".Point is, this brings it back at timing & the # of items you can hold in your possession, an item might not be worth anything atm, in 3months it might skyrocket.DM is completely deflecting the highlight of what I'm saying about his post even if he say I'm cherry picking, divinemight is not cherrypicking enough IMO because as I said, if you empty all retainers then possibiltys arnt the same,None can judge about glam items & sellable/unsellable #'s as its different for everyone, but just like that, I could go naked & have all my drawers empty to stock pile gold.

[Melichoir]

Snip.

If I was correct in my understanding, you cant make MB purchases from the App. Those who will do mass purchasing will already be logged into the game and monitoring the MB. The app in that case is not beneficial. It has no net effect (other than retainer space)

Also, I dont see this happening as it were. Mabye your server? Not so much on mine. I see people flip if theres a huge undercut, but to flip means youre going to buy out someone elses stock and tehn take the risk to turn over the item. If you buy out someones stock at 1000g a pop, and then repost for 10000 gil as the only person on the MB, you run the risk of some rando coming in and flooding the MB under you for 9000 or 8000. You can try buying them out to keep demand high, but thats an uphill battle youre likely to lose long term. Any changes in drop rates or the necessity of an item may cause pricing to tank. People who game the market board arent going to ultra overcharge when they ahve a capital on the item simply because it exposes a lot of them to risk.

Also, I fail to see how the app applies to something thats youre giving an example in the game.

Low lvl player sells a low lvl item. High lvl player purchases it to create an item to make more profit on from average market board users (whom, btw, are lazy generally, and Ill get to that.) This is somehow a bad thing cause the high lvl player has spent time and effort to get there, get savvy with the market and then use his earned money and resources to make more. Mind you the low lvl player benefitted from thsi transaction as it were too.They made money on an item they perceived as garbage. And the middle man? The average MB user? theyre paying for a service or item that theyre to lazy to get themselves.

The rule of thumb in this game is pretty straightforward: Either buy it and pay out the nose, or do it yourself and save (if not generate) money.

Remember me telling you that MB users are lazy? They are. How many MB users purchase glamour prisms for 2-4k a pop, not realizing 1 lvl 70 turn in to your GC can get you 5 or 6? How many buy lvl 20 gear off the MB for 10k that can be purchased for 1 or 2k from a vendor 20 feet away. How about overpriced dyes? Materials that can be purchased from NPCs. Mats that can be farmed by yourself or by retainers fairly easily? A lot of stuff on the MB is overpriced because people are LAZY. Thats not the fault of people savvy enough to realize that. If youre not going to spend time doing it yourself, youre going to pay others for it. Thats the way it works. And those lowly users? They could use to brush up to and charge more for the items if they wanted. But they choose not to. These are not the fault of the "rich" getting richer. And all this, btw, hsa nothing to do with the APP other than price changing.

As for inventory space, yeah I suppose items cna skyrocket in price, but item trends tend to go the opposite of that. Items typically FALL in price over time as more and more people gain access to those items ambiently. If you want to horde everything and flood the market when somethign sky rockets, yeah you could make a killing. And someone can come along and screw you by out pricing you.

[Ruf]

If I was correct in my understanding, you cant make MB purchases from the App. Those who will do mass purchasing will already be logged into the game and monitoring the MB. The app in that case is not beneficial. It has no net effect (other than retainer space)

Also, I dont see this happening as it were. Mabye your server? Not so much on mine. I see people flip if theres a huge undercut, but to flip means youre going to buy out someone elses stock and tehn take the risk to turn over the item. If you buy out someones stock at 1000g a pop, and then repost for 10000 gil as the only person on the MB, you run the risk of some rando coming in and flooding the MB under you for 9000 or 8000. You can try buying them out to keep demand high, but thats an uphill battle youre likely to lose long term. Any changes in drop rates or the necessity of an item may cause pricing to tank. People who game the market board arent going to ultra overcharge when they ahve a capital on the item simply because it exposes a lot of them to risk.

Also, I fail to see how the app applies to something thats youre giving an example in the game.

Low lvl player sells a low lvl item. High lvl player purchases it to create an item to make more profit on from average market board users (whom, btw, are lazy generally, and Ill get to that.) This is somehow a bad thing cause the high lvl player has spent time and effort to get there, get savvy with the market and then use his earned money and resources to make more. Mind you the low lvl player benefitted from thsi transaction as it were too.They made money on an item they perceived as garbage. And the middle man? The average MB user? theyre paying for a service or item that theyre to lazy to get themselves.

The rule of thumb in this game is pretty straightforward: Either buy it and pay out the nose, or do it yourself and save (if not generate) money.

Remember me telling you that MB users are lazy? They are. How many MB users purchase glamour prisms for 2-4k a pop, not realizing 1 lvl 70 turn in to your GC can get you 5 or 6? How many buy lvl 20 gear off the MB for 10k that can be purchased for 1 or 2k from a vendor 20 feet away. How about overpriced dyes? Materials that can be purchased from NPCs. Mats that can be farmed by yourself or by retainers fairly easily? A lot of stuff on the MB is overpriced because people are LAZY. Thats not the fault of people savvy enough to realize that. If youre not going to spend time doing it yourself, youre going to pay others for it. Thats the way it works. And those lowly users? They could use to brush up to and charge more for the items if they wanted. But they choose not to. These are not the fault of the "rich" getting richer. And all this, btw, hsa nothing to do with the APP other than price changing.

As for inventory space, yeah I suppose items cna skyrocket in price, but item trends tend to go the opposite of that. Items typically FALL in price over time as more and more people gain access to those items ambiently. If you want to horde everything and flood the market when somethign sky rockets, yeah you could make a killing. And someone can come along and screw you by out pricing you.

the person screwing over the other in that situation is the person that have the biggest stock, so in other words: the person that will undercut market to death as they have nearly unlimited ressources, minus counter argumenting one thing or two I said, & agree to disagree with me on low price items being good for average user generally speaking, you pretty much confirmed my point, I am not going to give detailed proofs of what we typed but yes its been experienced before, & therefore while you claim that you do not see that on your server, meanwhile it happens elsewhere. Junk items got me 50M in a week before,& just as a fyi,I'm not too rich atm either & yes I worked for it but still,

As for inventory space, yeah I suppose items can skyrocket in price, but item trends tend to go the opposite of that. Items typically FALL in price over time as more and more people gain access to those items ambiently. If you want to horde everything and flood the market when somethign sky rockets, yeah you could make a killing. And someone can come along and screw you by out pricing you.

ty

[Melichoir]

snip

Sigh. Ok.

I have unlimited resources, I can keep undercutting my competition. As I UNDER CUT other players, people buy my stock. Who is benefitting? The avg mb user, me. I can keep undercutting, which drives prices down. Then what? My competition does the same, driving all prices down. Whos benefitting? The avg MB user. If prices get to low, Im losing value on teh stock I have in attempts to undercut, so is my competition. Lets say they jump the gun and really UC. I buy out there stock, then repost at higher prices. I now have command of the MB on that item and can charge whatever I would like.

Another competitor comes along and UCs me. We start the battle all over again. I have to drop my prices to theirs to make sales. I can buy out there stock and just horde infinitely, I guess. But Im the only one losing money on that.Cause there will always be other people who will cumulatively have more resources than me to keep posting to the MB. Having a horde of items does not mean Im 'rich'. And the longer I have those items, the more volitile they become statistically. Meaning, longer I horde those items, more likely the price will keep driving lower and lower.

Also, who cares if Junk items get you to 50 Mil. Youre an anecdote, and not necessarily the trend (if you were, then getting rich would be something everyone would do). I dont confirm your point, btw, by stating that you can gamble on hoarding items to make huge profits. I said that to illustrate there are isntances where that may occur, but that broadly speaking, its a bad business practice. Any inventory youre not moving is a loss on your ' business'. Hoarding is a bad strat overall, especially as item accessibility tends to increase over time.

This all again, btw, has nothing to do wtih the app, as all that can do is change prices. You cant purchase from the MB, so you dont have the ability to buyout your competitors; only drive down prices.

[Vrankyl]

This all again, btw, has nothing to do wtih the app, as all that can do is change prices. You cant purchase from the MB, so you dont have the ability to buyout your competitors; only drive down prices.

This is actually wrong. You can indeed purchase items from the MB with the app through the use of the micro transaction moogle coins as stated on this slide:

[Fredco191]

Is that Lalafell holding a phone?

[Tinibou]

Is that Lalafell holding a phone?

Yup, sir. Absolutely.

[Ruf]

Sigh. Ok.

I have unlimited resources, I can keep undercutting my competition. As I UNDER CUT other players, people buy my stock. Who is benefitting? The avg mb user, me. I can keep undercutting, which drives prices down. Then what? My competition does the same, driving all prices down. Whos benefitting? The avg MB user. If prices get to low, Im losing value on teh stock I have in attempts to undercut, so is my competition. Lets say they jump the gun and really UC. I buy out there stock, then repost at higher prices. I now have command of the MB on that item and can charge whatever I would like.

Another competitor comes along and UCs me. We start the battle all over again. I have to drop my prices to theirs to make sales. I can buy out there stock and just horde infinitely, I guess. But Im the only one losing money on that.Cause there will always be other people who will cumulatively have more resources than me to keep posting to the MB. Having a horde of items does not mean Im 'rich'. And the longer I have those items, the more volitile they become statistically. Meaning, longer I horde those items, more likely the price will keep driving lower and lower.

Also, who cares if Junk items get you to 50 Mil. Youre an anecdote, and not necessarily the trend (if you were, then getting rich would be something everyone would do). I dont confirm your point, btw, by stating that you can gamble on hoarding items to make huge profits. I said that to illustrate there are isntances where that may occur, but that broadly speaking, its a bad business practice. Any inventory youre not moving is a loss on your ' business'. Hoarding is a bad strat overall, especially as item accessibility tends to increase over time.

This all again, btw, has nothing to do wtih the app, as all that can do is change prices. You cant purchase from the MB, so you dont have the ability to buyout your competitors; only drive down prices.

I dont confirm your point, btw

You said, that ppl get lower price, but its not necessarily true (sell an item for 1gil as you own 100 that's 1% of your income/sell an item for 1g as you own 1000 that is LESS than one percent) because the person that sold the raw material for cheap at start often is the one left stuck to overpay for what they want afterward as the cost is "in theory" more important to them with the capital they would have...,i never said I was the trend & making that 50M like that was part luck but mainly that still stand a fact + if the said initial seller sold the item for dirt cheap, what tells you that they will make good money later on? some players will literally go broke for a glamour & cut off the gils sink its a huge cycle & encouraging low prices of raw material is actually encouraging society to stay poor & under slavery by the power of money. You might not be able to buy with the app but it still "in theory give you a shot at faster sales" & faster money incoming can lead to faster reinvestment & so it goes back to timing once again.I dont care about none of that, its not game breaking to me to the point that I would stop playing for that but the app does give tremendous advantages by the sound of it. saddle bag & extra retainer would be highlight by the interaction & the mentality you are sharing with me... but nonetheless it gives faster sales options for x allowed time. if something is staying in demand forever, its all about what you do with it, I disapprove to your whales & avg user numbers, but well that's just me. all for one & one for all.

This is actually wrong. You can indeed purchase items from the MB with the app through the use of the micro transaction moogle coins as stated on this slide:

Sigh. Ok.

lol,Idk if its true or not, but personally I would find it rather dumb if they did let you put items for sales using virtual currency of the application but yet restrict you from purchasing with it. 1+1=ouch my head hurt maths are tough & while I do sarcasm, I actually like mathematics at times, I wish I was better with them...

[Vstarstruck]

If I was correct in my understanding, you cant make MB purchases from the App. Those who will do mass purchasing will already be logged into the game and monitoring the MB. The app in that case is not beneficial. It has no net effect (other than retainer space)

For the THIRD TIME NOW:

YO CANT sell items for free! it is a microtransaction!!!

BUYING is free, once per day only
If they change this one of 2 things can thank, these threads and posts and or SE's translation team being poor.

The app works like this
Free:
a currency called a kupo nut is given to you, this is used to ONLY buy items for free
the 5 dollar sub, gives to 2 of those^

Now there is a second pay element to this, though MICROTRANSACTIONS, you PAY with IRL money each time you want to BUY or SELL something off the MB, it is FLAT out Pay to WIN system when it comes to the MB. This is directly off the slides they shown us, if it ends up to be different, thank posts like those made by me and others, for that.

the retainers where already passing the line, the only question was how much each person generally accepted it and for the most part did not care. However with the app now, they are pushing P2W the MB way too far. Them rushing out ARR is not in our hands to pay extra for, I would love to go back in time and tell them take an extra 2-6 months to work on it. haste makes waste, FFXIV is a 5 year example why. HECK wasn't 1.0 problematic because THAT was rushed out too? Eureka? glam dresser? Gee i see a pattern.

To be fair hate for EA is not only born out of MTs and lootboxes (cept for late bloomers that just joined the bandvagon) it also stem from their want of essentially killing the competition, by buying other companies, stripping them to the bones and then closing them.
According to the bets Bioware are next in line

ik this, but do not forget, a DLC requiring a DLC, they had DLception, like our subception. (though the last retainer is funny, its a sub on top of a sub, on top of a sub, while being involved in microtransactions.)

lol,Idk if its true or not, but personally I would find it rather dumb if they did let you put items for sales using virtual currency of the application but yet restrict you from purchasing with it. 1+1=ouch my head hurt maths are tough & while I do sarcasm, I actually like mathematics are times, I ish I was better with them...

The 1+1 is for BUYING only, the IRL money micotranaction can do both.

Option [Webster's Dictionary]: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/option

1) an act of choosing

2) the power or right to choose

3) something that may be chosen

As long as SE gives you a CHOICE in whether or not to pay the extra money. It qualifies as an OPTION. Thus, it is OPTIONAL CONTENT. The only way this would NOT qualify as optional is if they made the app and it's subscription mandatory in order to subscribe to and play the game.

As I've stated in other threads, just because you don't LIKE you choices, does NOT mean you don't have a choice.

*hands on face*
How did you miss the point? How? I will simplfy what was said in the post.
Charging extra for this, is a basic game feature that should be base, suddenly calling it optional would be no different then saying you need pay 2 dollars a month to use glam, you need pay 3 dollars a month to go to the gold saucer.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...if-it-continue

[Remyogic]

Charging extra for this, is a basic game feature that should be base, suddenly calling it optional would be no different then saying you need pay 2 dollars a month to use glam, you need pay 3 dollars a month to go to the gold saucer.

I don't see this as a basic game feature and neither does SE, last I checked they are the ones who get to determine what is basic game feature and what is not. YOU calling it a basic game feature does not make it indisputably, factually so.

I have no problem if they STARTED glams and Gold Saucer as a pay feature. It's not like I'm sitting at work everyday, watching the clock saying "Come on 5'oclock!!! I gotta get home and progress my Gold Saucer!!!!!"

If they added features to the game for free, then later blocked them behind a paywall to continue using them, then I'd have issue. But a company, in a free market, deciding what the will and will not charge for. That's their right. Period.