Minimum iLvl - Leveling Dungeons

[BillyKaplan]

I am fully onboard with this. It would be harder to implement for ARR but there's really no excuse in HW onwards. The game practically throws gear at you with full HQ crated gear sets available from both MSQ quests as well as side-quests. And that's before the vendor items that are readily available for very little cost. As for Sirensong, 270 is too much but you can very easily enforce something around the 230-229 item level the the least. The MSQ gives you Lore item coffers, and that's before all the poetics you're going to get just running the story-required MSQ dungeons which will let you get Shire gear.
The biggest issue I see here is that the game's going to have to be a lot more forthcoming with information regarding this sort of thing. Mark quests that give you gear as awards. You hit x0 for the first time? Text popup telling you where to get your tome gear for this level. And of course the occasional "you're about to enter a difficult battle, let me examine your gear" roadblock like they did in frigging level 5 that everyone either forgot or outright skipped because story potion would do this game a world of good.

[Zojha]

As for Sirensong, 270 is too much but you can very easily enforce something around the 230-229 item level the the least.

Even the previous MSQ dungeon, Baelsar's Wall, has an i230 lock. It just follows that it should be 230 at the least, though I'd put it at 245. Reason being: The gear that drops in a dungeon is typically ~10(ARR)-15 iLvL(HW+) higher than the minimum required to enter and it drops i260.

That'd be somewhat consistent.

[BillyKaplan]

Even the previous MSQ dungeon, Baelsar's Wall, has an i230 lock.

And therein lies the problem. Logical trail: You're at Sirensong -> You passed Baelsar's Wall to get to it -> you have 230 at the least. Seems sound. But then you remember people story-jumped, and didn't necessarily job-jumped so they didn't get the gear coffer. Maybe even powered to 60 through Palace of the Dead where they could go in naked.
The absolute least they have to do is slap an ilvl lock on Sirensong, if only to get around this loohole created by story potions.

[Kaitoo]

And therein lies the problem. Logical trail: You're at Sirensong -> You passed Baelsar's Wall to get to it -> you have 230 at the least. Seems sound. But then you remember people story-jumped, and didn't necessarily job-jumped so they didn't get the gear coffer. Maybe even powered to 60 through Palace of the Dead where they could go in naked.
The absolute least they have to do is slap an ilvl lock on Sirensong, if only to get around this loohole created by story potions.

Nothing against the idea but:

And the end of the day you could put requirements all you want, if you choose to willingy group up with randoms you gonna risk in to getting such situations. Speaking from a general point, you are right story potion loophole

[BillyKaplan]

NAnd the end of the day you could put requirements all you want, if you choose to willingy group up with randoms you gonna risk in to getting such situations.

I can always get into parties where they switched into level 1 glamour or gathering gear, yes. That has happened before. But that kind of attitude makes one question it to begin with - why bother with ilvl restrictions in the first place? The answer is simple, that the content was balanced with a certain ilvl in mind. At least as far as Vitality across the board (especially for tanks) and MND for healers (gear's main stats) go. While a bit more loose for leveling dungeons, the same can be said for them as well.
Will there be trolls? Yes, always, you can get a MRD in Savage if you fully pug it and not even PF. But we're not talking about trolls here, we're talking people who are simply uninformed and who do wrong because the game lets them.

[Kaitoo]

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Im not sure i agree cause like besides story potion, somebody playing regulary through MQ and going into Doma Dungeon, which this topic is about (and this would be a problem even with story potion if you ask me), doesnt sound like "someone who is new and dont know better". When someone has not equipped gear which they solely get through MQ which has the right ammount Ilvl imo it has nothing much to do with uninformed. If someone does get that far into the game (we talking several days or even weeks ingame time here) then the issue is something else without realising something that fundemental.

This means, until this point, the player, forever reason (lets exclude trolling because thats some special case) didnt get the memo. Which is a bad thing so i dont know, if game design wise, simply adding minimum ilvl is like smart and dont carry the issue only to somewhere else.

[BillyKaplan]

This means, until this point, the player, forever reason (lets exclude trolling because thats some special case) didnt get the memo.

I ran Bardam's Mettle the other day. DRK. Our BLM was in full shire gear at 69, probably a job potion. I had to tell them to use Enochian because they only spammed Fire and Bliz. You're sadly giving hefty chunks of the playerbase far too much credit. Maintaining proper ilvl and even learning your rotation are things many players don't regularly do.

Which is a bad thing so i dont know, if game design wise, simply adding minimum ilvl is like smart and dont carry the issue only to somewhere else.

It will keep those people from harming the game experience of the rest of their parties, just like how you should kick and report people who get into a duty and then change into low level gear (unless agreed upon before queueing ofc). More positively, it will tell people "hey, you're doing something wrong". Most people will fix it when told that.

[InkstainedGwyn]

Honestly, I think the only minimum requirement that needs to be added is for weapon ilevel. As long as your weapon is up to par, you can get away with a lot of stuff.

Yes and no. Bardam's Mettle - had a bard in there in sky pirate gear. You know, the white stuff you put on to even try to start running the 60 dungeons so you could get your scripture for Shire gear? He thought he was good enough to dodge everything (and with the second boss, sure, that's fine), but I knew there was trouble when we hit the group of bird trash mobs in the second part and the big one did his wind AOE and the bard just... dropped. Full health -> nothing. He wasn't rolling on gear, either. I ended up with a piece of aiming gear because I greed everything, trusting people who need gear to actually... well... need it. Needless to say, final boss trashed him twice in immediate succession with his wind AOE and Flutterfall and at that point it was worth more to me to keep my mana to keep up the tank and the other DPS, so I left him on the floor for the rest of the fight. He had a shisui weapon, so the DPS wasn't terrible, but he couldn't handle the damage.

And the end of the day you could put requirements all you want, if you choose to willingy group up with randoms you gonna risk in to getting such situations.

If the game already has measures in place to gate people (and it does, with ilvl requirements in 50/60/70 dungeons, as well as already level-gating in levelling dungeons) then "people are just gonna be dicks, you signed up for it" really shouldn't be applicable. They already limit so much of what we do so that we don't 'inconvenience' other players, this seems like such a massive oversight.