Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Okamimaru]

No, just with that specific situation.

so then other than time/convenience what can you get in game with unlimited gil/storage that I cant?

[Moonlite]

If time is the only thing you're actually buying its called pay for convenience not pay to win...

This is so funny.If we can't all agree on P2W, we can sure as kupo agree that 14 is full of pay 2 convenience. But literally this is the argument players have with the devs on other games. Dev "It's just convenience, you will all be able to reach the same point. Just player X can reach it faster. He has Three times the retainers he gets three times the ventures, the sale slots. But you can eventually reach the same spot. Players "This is garbage, he can get stuff three times as fast it is pay 2 win."

I am honestly shocked that anyone even complains. It is clear that SE has one agenda. The 1.X days were a lot of empty air and we are here for their bottom line. It was a lot of PR and we ate it up legacies were dreamers. Getting mad or complaining is foolish at this point. They have enough people on the forums who feel SE needs to pad their bottom line with the game. They would be better served rating the game on steam,meta, and other avenue.

I actually had come to the forums to see if a discussion of botting was going on. Since I know people were trying to get some solid answers and this article https://kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-deve...d-t-1825324789

Funny thought while typing this. Rare squadron members in the mogstation limited use for mog coins.

[Alleo]

No, P2W is exactly what happens if one achieve more with less effort. If you need to spend more playtime to benefit from those addtionnal retainers, getting more rewards is expected.

Again, it's irrelevant. In any competitive part of the game, you can easily earn gils much faster than items are released. Any serious farmer will always have enough gils to buy anything anytime.

The less effort is when you can sell more even with the same amount of items. If we had unlimited amount of slots to sell then more retainers would not bring an advantage but they simply do because each has a limit. So if I craft 60 items and another crafts that too but has no additional retainers, I will have an advantage even though we both have the same items (thus the same basics). Because that person has to wait till the free retainers sell the old stuff to even beginn selling the rest, while I can throw them on the market board at the same time. Thus an advantage that I got thanks to paying money. So if we take the time that I need to sell the stuff as the win, I win. Its not about the real time it will take (maybe he will still sell faster for a reason) but that I theoretically should sell it faster.

The same with boosters or gear with stats. Buying that will not guarantee you to win. Others with no booster can still win over you. But they got the advantage that should let them win if everyone has the same basics.

If time is the only thing you're actually buying its called pay for convenience not pay to win...

You could argue having more time is probably the biggest win of all. Since you can then use the time for other things ingame or even real life. (Just saying) In the end it would always be just pay for convenience (or advantage) because its never a 100% sure win. You can lose against someone in PVP that uses such an item, only to still win the tournament if you got lucky and your last opponement is someone with no booster. Yet people would still call it P2W. Honestly if we nitpick about the term (which does not even have an universal meaning) then lets just say: Retainers give those that buy them an advantage and its convenient for them. Which happens in a sub MMO.

[Remedi]

are we really arguing on the semantics of something we don't like now?

I think that the retainers and others things are not true pay to win, but I can understand why ppl see them like this.
When all's said and done we all despise the rented retainers and app don't we?

[Moonlite]

When all's said and done we all despise the rented retainers and app don't we?

SE needs the money. How dare you imply we should dislike a feature they put in. I might need to send them another birthday gift. /sarcasm off

[Divinemights]

are we really arguing on the semantics of something we don't like now?

I think that the retainers and others things are not true pay to win, but I can understand why ppl see them like this.
When all's said and done we all despise the rented retainers and app don't we?

Truth is not many of us cares and Japanese side prefers the feature.

[Remedi]

Yes I know, I'm talking about our community not the japanese one

[JohnnyDevo]

I pay for 9 retainers and to all of those who say it isn't pay to win, you're wrong and here is why : oh wait I am not going to say why because I have made a fortune off of it. But trust me, it some aspects, you are getting a huuuuuuuuuuuge advantage.

Neat, so you probably have more gil than me.

what else do you have that I don't?

I'll wait.

[Okamimaru]

You could argue having more time is probably the biggest win of all. Since you can then use the time for other things ingame or even real life

by that logic I could win even more by unsubbing and save myself not only time but real money... this game has no defined endgame so winning is arbitrary based on personal goals...

[Vstarstruck]

Truth is not many of us cares and Japanese side prefers the feature.

What does that have to do with anything? They liked being ripped off, maybe they have more IRL money on average to toss around then here. A lot of people here are critical over making sure we get a good value of things because we know it is easy to rip people off if you do not. With the recent controversies of EA and konami, you think they would second guess releasing something like this, since people are more on edge in general from it and lootbox BS.

by that logic I could win even more by unsubbing and save myself not only time but real money... this game has no defined endgame so winning is arbitrary based on personal goals...

How in the heck did you miss the point she was saying? word twisting is real. Do you think SE is perfect and find a need to defend them?

There is something else you are missing from this, if i keep making sales, buying everything, like paying people to get everything in the game, im forever ahead, pay to win is what retainers are along with the app with paying more money to spam undercut and rule the market. You do not see the issue with one person completely owning the MB?

so then other than time/convenience what can you get in game with unlimited gil/storage that I cant?

Everything, you can pay people for any kind of favor, mog shop stuff, savage clears ex clears, etc. owning an army of FCs to horde exclusive airship materials ...
You wouldn't be able to have everything, like a dedicated MB player can have. I am sure if someone wanted to, they can bride for PvP wins, after all we are talking about having the goal of having cap retainers across 8 chrs to be over 25 bil yes? since 25 bil is the limit pushing of base sub. Everything has a price...

I made this thread for one reason only, the app pushed the pay to win concept too far when it comes to MB advantage, so I am done giving them a free pass on that. base sub should be even with extra payers, this means the app shouldn't be allowed to list and sell items, and past 2 retainers shouldn't be able to venture and list items.

I love this thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...icial-response.


Square enix, you where the chosen one! The players said you would rule the gaming market from not having cash grab schemes, not joining EA, Konami, and activision!