Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Divinemights]

are we really arguing on the semantics of something we don't like now?

I think that the retainers and others things are not true pay to win, but I can understand why ppl see them like this.
When all's said and done we all despise the rented retainers and app don't we?

Truth is not many of us cares and Japanese side prefers the feature.

[Vstarstruck]

Truth is not many of us cares and Japanese side prefers the feature.

What does that have to do with anything? They liked being ripped off, maybe they have more IRL money on average to toss around then here. A lot of people here are critical over making sure we get a good value of things because we know it is easy to rip people off if you do not. With the recent controversies of EA and konami, you think they would second guess releasing something like this, since people are more on edge in general from it and lootbox BS.

by that logic I could win even more by unsubbing and save myself not only time but real money... this game has no defined endgame so winning is arbitrary based on personal goals...

How in the heck did you miss the point she was saying? word twisting is real. Do you think SE is perfect and find a need to defend them?

There is something else you are missing from this, if i keep making sales, buying everything, like paying people to get everything in the game, im forever ahead, pay to win is what retainers are along with the app with paying more money to spam undercut and rule the market. You do not see the issue with one person completely owning the MB?

so then other than time/convenience what can you get in game with unlimited gil/storage that I cant?

Everything, you can pay people for any kind of favor, mog shop stuff, savage clears ex clears, etc. owning an army of FCs to horde exclusive airship materials ...
You wouldn't be able to have everything, like a dedicated MB player can have. I am sure if someone wanted to, they can bride for PvP wins, after all we are talking about having the goal of having cap retainers across 8 chrs to be over 25 bil yes? since 25 bil is the limit pushing of base sub. Everything has a price...

I made this thread for one reason only, the app pushed the pay to win concept too far when it comes to MB advantage, so I am done giving them a free pass on that. base sub should be even with extra payers, this means the app shouldn't be allowed to list and sell items, and past 2 retainers shouldn't be able to venture and list items.

I love this thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...icial-response.


Square enix, you where the chosen one! The players said you would rule the gaming market from not having cash grab schemes, not joining EA, Konami, and activision!

[Divinemights]

What does that have to do with anything? They liked being ripped off, maybe they have more IRL money on average to toss around then here. A lot of people here are critical over making sure we get a good value of things because we know it is easy to rip people off if you do not. With the recent controversies of EA and konami, you think they would second guess releasing something like this, since people are more on edge in general from it and lootbox BS.

It is called the fundamental of the democracy, minority obeys majority.
Calling Retainers a pay to win is already highly debatable (laughable at the best), you don't even have anything to calling S/E at same level as EA and Konami while there is still a Blizzard who is selling loot box in Overwatch and token in World of Warcraft

[Vstarstruck]

I felt this was relevant.

Basically this. The Web/Mobile Auction had a lot more issues with keeping it up than it was really worth for the small amount of players that actually used it. Trying to tackle and fix those issues (for transparency the majority were just exploits) just takes dev time away from working on new content. While it may change in the future, we currently at this time aren't planning to bring this back.

Why yes, yes it is, it would be nice to have that kind of communication here.

It is called the fundamental of the democracy, minority obeys majority.
Calling Retainers a pay to win is already highly debatable (laughable at the best), you don't even have anything to calling S/E at same level as EA and Konami while there is still a Blizzard who is selling loot box in Overwatch and token in World of Warcraft

interesting... you do realize... no government on earth is pure democracy? The only thing laughable here is your white knighting. Heck even your username is close to it, "Divineknights" To think minority "obeys" majority is downright laughable, what a joke. Them paying extra has nothing to do with our concerns, I am sure they would be happier if it was free (and should be) and removing those BS moogle coins. The "majority" can also be wrong, that is why no pure democracy exists.

Yes, it is PtW (by the definition of giving a significant advantage). Having read over the thread I can't help wondering if all the people arguing it isn't PtW are simply happy with the present system where we rent retainers or if they have just got hooked up on semantics.

I have a couple of friends who have the maximum amount of retainers and they have made a significant amount of gil out of them, running ventures on all of them as often as they can. Of course it is possible to rent extra retainers and get barely anything out of them besides the storage. However, just because some players don't make full use of them, doesn't mean retainers don't give a significant advantage to those who manage them well.

+1, ty.

[Divinemights]

Why yes, yes it is, it would be nice to have that kind of communication here.

Lmao, oh sorry, it is roflmao.
I am sorry,it is pretty much enough when I seeing you questioning the basic concept of democracy.
What you just said is a direct contradicting of purpose of open discussion forum.
This forum demonstrates the fundamental elements of democracy: freedom of speech and minority obeys majority.
Good thing United States has showed the world it is a true democratic nation in 2016 president election.

Calling people that disagrees with you a white knight is a classic last resort when you are out of counter arguments and against the freedom of speech.
No, I do not agrees Retainer is pay to win as many of posters here sharing the same idea.
Yes, Japanese prefers premium mobile app with overwhelming positive reception, this is a fact.

[MomomiMomi]

Good thing United States has showed the world it is a true democratic nation in 2016 president election.

You're being sarcastic, right?

If the United States was a true democratic nation, it would have a different president right now, because the current president did not win the popular vote, which is what a democracy is ruled by: the majority of people.

The U.S. is a Republic, not a Democracy.

[Divinemights]

You're being sarcastic, right?

If the United States was a true democratic nation, it would have a different president right now, because the current president did not win the popular vote, which is what a democracy is ruled by: the majority of people.

The U.S. is a Republic, not a Democracy.

Obama lost the popular vote too in his second election, but he is not a Republic, so I am not sure what you are trying to say.
The system wise took the states with less population in mind and is agreed on by all states, so system wise, it is still democratic (I am Canadian, there is no point to defend US, just from a Canadian's perspective)

[Vstarstruck]

Lmao, oh sorry, it is roflmao.
When you are starts questioning the concept of democracy, that is pretty much enough.
Good thing United States show the world that they are democratic enough in 2016 President election.

Same old that everyone that disagree is a White Knight lmao

So what is your point? the minority got their way with 2016 US president
What exactly is your point? other then to derail the topic?
The "majority" can also be wrong, that is why no pure democracy exists.
I said the majority can sometimes be wrong, not that they are always wrong.

You are missing several points completely.
One I am calling you a white knight over clawing at anything for a defense (weak arguments like the one you are doing now)
"Yes, Japanese prefers premium mobile app with overwhelming positive reception, this is a fact."
Oh ? first off proof, and no heresay is not proof
second off, it has nothing to do with the point, them having a positive reaction does not change the fact it is P2W, all it shows is they like wasting money and being ripped off.

You're being sarcastic, right?

If the United States was a true democratic nation, it would have a different president right now, because the current president did not win the popular vote, which is what a democracy is ruled by: the majority of people.

The U.S. is a Republic, not a Democracy.

beat me to it because of the dang quotas but it is technically a Democratic-republic.

This forum at times shows why a pure democracy does not work, what Divinemights is attempting is a tyranny by majority situation, and the REASON no government body is a pure democratic system.
Divinemights does not like me because I will not be silenced and pushed around by their bullying.

Obama lost the popular vote too in his second election, but he is not a Republic, so I am not sure what you are trying to say.
The system wise took the states with less population in mind and is agreed on by all states, so system wise, it is still democratic (I am Canadian, there is no point to defend US, just from a Canadian's perspective)

wow you really do not understand what is going on, what obama's party is has nothing to do with what momomi said. Also no person is a "republic" you mean a Republican. (calling someone a republic makes no sense whatsoever if you know the meaning of that word)This is why you do not see the problems with pay to win with retainers, because you got no clue what is going on, taking 2 people to correct you over US presidents in hoping you understand after this posting of it. Also you are wrong, it was Popular vote 65,915,795 vs 60,933,504, try google before spewing nonsense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...election,_2012

Now are we done derealing? This is exactly why I called you a white knight, because you use weak arguments that have no real point and clawing at anything you can get a hold of to blind defend SE.

[Kazrah]

You need a cookie on so many levels. I love how they say it takes time away from developing other content. But that doesn't happen in the FF world though. All these side projects don't hinder in game development. In no way could thye have been working on UI systems for retainers/MB in game instead of this app. Or one of 100 other things players could list. Good thing they got their freemium on.

If anything, it seems like Square-Enix is putting more development into side projects seemingly to the point of stripping away resources for this game, because who needs new stuff in a money-raking flagship MMORPG when Dragon Quest 47 can be made (or whatever idiotic number it's on). Priorities, amirite?

-political nonsense-

Yeah, might wanna finish that up before the thread gets locked for that stuff. Just report them and move onto making suggestions.

[Ceallach]

I felt this was relevant.