Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Vstarstruck]

I paid for 7 retainers (+2 frees) and I don't see there is any impacting advantages.
The only advantages you can get is extra retainer venture chances and it is hardly game breaking.
These retainers can not help me in PvE or help mekill people in PvP.
Please do enlighten me

game braking or not, that does not change it is P2W, P2W is not defined by how big something is that is gamebreaking.

"These retainers can not help me in PvE or help me kill people in PvP." does not matter to define something as P2W.

You saying there is no impacting advantages just means you have them not selling anything.

Tell me what advantage having even the maximum amount of gil possible in this game will give you over another player? Cuz I'm honestly not seeing it... or max inventory? What can you buy that I can't earn or gather or craft?

Time, I can get whatever I want simply by buying it, and not waste time doing x or y, hey.. same thing as leveling potions and MSQ potions, funny.

However having that much gil, esp if you are going full whale means a complete control over the market. My personal issue with that is I simply think it is wrong, but at the same time bragging about how I control a fully economy is tempting.

[Reynhart]

Not happening dude.

Sure, who needs evidence to back up their claim...

- Additional sales slots
- Additional body to send off on ventures
- Additional storage space to have materials on hand to use on demand
And then there's the matter of ventures... Rare minions? More retainers lead to more opportunities to acquire concurrently.

Yeah, so ? What competitive advantage it gives to you ? Does you having a minion prevent me from having it, and even sooner if I'm luckier than you ?
Does it prevent me from crafting or earning enough gils to buy the best stuff on market boards so that I can clear content ?
Does it make you more skilled than players that might have less gils than you but still clear sooner ?
Does it allow you to buy the house you want before others if you can't log on at the initial rush ?

Earning gils is not a goal, and no goal requires that much retainers.

[Divinemights]

game braking or not, that does not change it is P2W, P2W is not defined by how big something is that is gamebreaking.

"These retainers can not help me in PvE or help me kill people in PvP." does not matter to define something as P2W.

You saying there is no impacting advantages just means you have them not selling anything.

Retainers is pay to win just because you said so doesn't mean it is a fact.
I said it many times, all you are doing is hijacking FF14 community with your own propaganda.
Many of us do not see retainers as pay to win.
Retainer is just a more accessible version of mule from FF11 where you gain more storage spaces.
You can list total 180 items but there is no guarantee all of them will be sold.
It is still determined by a player's marketing skill.
A lot of us are using retainers as storage spaces and mannequins.
If cash shop is selling a weapon that is always 20 ilvl above Omega Savage weapon, that is pay to win, this is not.

I have to ask myself now, why am I even bother waste time in Vstar's daily dramatic thread.
If it is not retainer, there will always something you come up to complain

[aesteval]

Sure, who needs evidence to back up their claim...

Yeah, so ? What competitive advantage it gives to you ? Does you having a minion prevent me from having it, and even sooner if I'm luckier than you ?
Does it prevent me from crafting or earning enough gils to buy the best stuff on market boards so that I can clear content ?
Does it make you more skilled than players that might have less gils than you ?
Does it allow you to buy the house you want before others if you can't log on at the initial rush ?

Earning gils is not a goal, and no goal requires that much retainers.

Back off. I'm not in the middle of the main discussion, I'm filling in blanks for someone who refuses to.

[Alleo]

Does one crafter has more materia and decide to sell them by pack of 5 at a discount while the other decide to sell them one by one at full price ?

P2W discussions always just function if you have two people that have the exact same basics. So they have both the same time to craft stuff, the same material and the same amount. Now as soon as the amount is over the limit of the two retainer the other will have the advantage with their paid one. You need to use two similiar people otherwise ypou cant really argue about a "win".

I mean you can have a booster and person A buys it. If person A barely does any DPS than that one would still lose against person B that still is better without it. But if both of them are the same then A has suddenly quite the advantage over B thanks to paid money.

Tell me what advantage having even the maximum amount of gil possible in this game will give you over another player? Cuz I'm honestly not seeing it... or max inventory? What can you buy that I can't earn or gather or craft?

P2W is not always just about something that gives others no chance. Its about making it easier. For example someone that has more Gil thanks to more retainers will get stuff way faster in the same amount of time that someone with only two retainers has. Saving time is the win in that example.

Sure, who needs evidence to back up their claim...

Yeah, so ? What competitive advantage it gives to you ? Does you having a minion prevent me from having it, and even sooner if I'm luckier than you ?
Does it prevent me from crafting or earning enough gils to buy the best stuff on market boards so that I can clear content ?
Does it make you more skilled than players that might have less gils than you but still clear sooner ?
Does it allow you to buy the house you want before others if you can't log on at the initial rush ?

Earning gils is not a goal, and no goal requires that much retainers.

P2W never completely hinders the other one to finish the content. If you sell a booster or gear with certain stats would probably count as P2W for most. Yet nobody necessary wins anything with that too. People could still clear the content. If you argue it like that nothing is ever truly P2W. Because it never stops someone from doing content without it. It just gives them an advantage.

[Okamimaru]

Paying gil for clears.

Which isn't p2w... it's a trash player paying to be a trash player...

[Reynhart]

P2W discussions always just function if you have two people that have the exact same basics.

No, P2W is exactly what happens if one achieve more with less effort. If you need to spend more playtime to benefit from those addtionnal retainers, getting more rewards is expected.

For example someone that has more Gil thanks to more retainers will get stuff way faster in the same amount of time that someone with only two retainers has.

Again, it's irrelevant. In any competitive part of the game, you can easily earn gils much faster than items are released. Any serious farmer will always have enough gils to buy anything anytime.

P2W never completely hinders the other one to finish the content.

That's not true, and the main reason why people mostly associate pay-to-win to PvP. In you play a versus fighting game where you can buy an overpowered character, you'll mostly prevent other players from winning, thus hindering their goal.

[Okamimaru]

Time, I can get whatever I want simply by buying it, and not waste time doing x or y, hey.. same thing as leveling potions and MSQ potions, funny.

If time is the only thing you're actually buying its called pay for convenience not pay to win...

[Vstarstruck]

P2W discussions always just function if you have two people that have the exact same basics. So they have both the same time to craft stuff, the same material and the same amount. Now as soon as the amount is over the limit of the two retainer the other will have the advantage with their paid one. You need to use two similiar people otherwise ypou cant really argue about a "win".
I mean you can have a booster and person A buys it. If person A barely does any DPS than that one would still lose against person B that still is better without it. But if both of them are the same then A has suddenly quite the advantage over B thanks to paid money.



P2W is not always just about something that gives others no chance. Its about making it easier. For example someone that has more Gil thanks to more retainers will get stuff way faster in the same amount of time that someone with only two retainers has. Saving time is the win in that example.



P2W never completely hinders the other one to finish the content. If you sell a booster or gear with certain stats would probably count as P2W for most. Yet nobody necessary wins anything with that too. People could still clear the content. If you argue it like that nothing is ever truly P2W. Because it never stops someone from doing content without it. It just gives them an advantage.

I am glad there are others that can analyze situations

Retainers is pay to win just because you said so doesn't mean it is a fact.
I said it many times, all you are doing is hijacking FF14 community with your own propaganda.
Many of us do not see retainers as pay to win.
Retainer is just a more accessible version of mule from FF11 where you gain more storage spaces.
You can list total 180 items but there is no guarantee all of them will be sold.
It is still determined by a player's marketing skill.
A lot of us are using retainers as storage spaces and mannequins.
If cash shop is selling a weapon that is always 20 ilvl above Omega Savage weapon, that is pay to win, this is not.

I have to ask myself now, why am I even bother waste time in Vstar's daily dramatic thread.
If it is not retainer, there will always something you come up to complain

Want me to change this to my PoV to explain how rude you are being?

If time is the only thing you're actually buying its called pay for convenience not pay to win...

No, just with that specific situation.

[Divinemights]

There is no need, because any one have direct opposite opinion than your will be labelled as rude, I rest my case.
Retainers is not a pay-to-win, but good luck with your crusade.