The Unofficial "Why is this still a thing" Thread

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Take away Disembowel, Dragoon falls out of meta, you still lose ~150 dps (based on your own numbers, ~400 loss, ~260 from Disembowel) plus more from other party members. Besides that, someone else said "caster dps is different because it's calculated before bard/mch buffs", and I seriously doubt SE tuned Bard/Mch to be gated behind a Dragoon in the party. Are raids unclearable for you without a Dragoon in the group? If not, then the dragoon dps is icing on the cake and not mandatory. Just my opinion, but it seems that there isn't an issue here.

Actually, no. The loss of Litany is somewhat mitigated by Trick Attack or Brotherhood since you will at least one of those; possibly both. Disembowel has no such alternative. You simply lose 250+ DPS because a Dragoon wasn't present. Slashing, meanwhile, can be applied by three jobs spanning two roles. It's far less likely a group will lack Warrior, Ninja and Samurai. Making only one job benefit two others to this extent is simply poor design, and why so many statics prioritize Dragoon.

And no one said they were mandatory. That doesn't make it feel good knowing you're inherently gimped because a group decided to run Ninja/Samurai. Plenty of people participate in Savage for reasons beyond just clearing each week. The Bard in my static doesn't chase fflogs, however she still felt better seeing her numbers jump last tier when I switched from Samurai to Dragoon. It basically comes down to no job should be dependent on only one other job for a good chunk of its buffs. Paladin has three options to provide it Slashing. Bard has one.

[GunksFoy]

Snip

I mean, you could have all Brotherhood, Trick, and Litany all at once as a Bard/Mch, however unlikely. Those skills do different things. I agree there could certainly be another class that has it, but I don't necessarily think Bard AND Machinist should get it. Giving it to all of them either pushes Dragoon out of the meta, increases it's dps, or makes it unfair to the jobs that don't have a slashing debuff. It's all a conundrum. What would be better imo, would be adding a new job in 5.0 with a piercing debuff (or do away with them entirely). Give some variety. Could even give Rdm a piercing debuff to compensate for it's relatively low dps, though they already have massive appeal in progression raiding.

[Dualgunner]

I mean, you could have all Brotherhood, Trick, and Litany all at once as a Bard/Mch, however unlikely. Those skills do different things. I agree there could certainly be another class that has it, but I don't necessarily think Bard AND Machinist should get it. Giving it to all of them either pushes Dragoon out of the meta, increases it's dps, or makes it unfair to the jobs that don't have a slashing debuff. It's all a conundrum. What would be better imo, would be adding a new job in 5.0 with a piercing debuff (or do away with them entirely). Give some variety. Could even give Rdm a piercing debuff to compensate for it's relatively low dps, though they already have massive appeal in progression raiding.

DRG losing Disembowel would put it on level with MNK and NIN for buffs given. If that drives it out of the meta, that just speaks to how OP Piercing is as a buff.

[GunksFoy]

DRG losing Disembowel would put it on level with MNK and NIN for buffs given. If that drives it out of the meta, that just speaks to how OP Piercing is as a buff.

Not really. Monk is at the top of the DPS charts, so its low utility is understandable. Ninja does have very low dps, but very good utility. Trick Attack is definitely better than Litany or Sight, primarily because it can be used twice between Sights and 3 times between Litany. They also have other prized utility. There's a reason so many people want ninjas. Dragoon losing it's piercing debuff would mean it either needs higher dps, or a different utility to replace it.