The Unofficial "Why is this still a thing" Thread

[HyoMinPark]

You don't lose anything, the raid loses 400 DPS on you by not having a DRG paired with you. That's the definition of raid utility.

If you weren't there, the raid would also lose what you offer as utility.

Actually, BRD/MCH do lose something—personal damage. Both the raid and physical ranged lose out on damage; the only difference is the BRD/MCH is personal DPS, the raid is rDPS. DRG’s piercing directly affects BRD/MCH personal damage output in ways that no other DPS is effected. They lose 250~300 personal DPS without Disembowel. The raid, in turn, loses the same amount of rDPS that BRD/MCH lose in personal DPS. Again, no other DPS is dependent like they are. And no other rBuff gives 250~300 to a single job like Disembowel does to BRD/MCH. Not even Trick Attack.

For some insight, I looked at the rDPS calculator of my 5753 parse, and the breakdown of buffs that benefited me were as follows:

—Disembowel: 260.4
—Battle Litany: 48.6
—Dragon Sight: 57.1
—Balance: 57.1
—Spear: 12.6
—Chain Strategem: 45.5
—Trick Attack: 94.7
—Embolden (5-4-3-2-1): 19.9-21.8-13.9-5.5-4.0

No other buff benefits BRD/MCH like Disembowel does. No other DPS is so entirely dependent on another job either in order to reach its potential personal damage.

And sure, BRD offers an immense amount of utility in their passive crit buff, Foe’s, and Battle Voice. But Disembowel still gives more to a BRD than any one of their raid buffs alone does to the entire raid. Same for other rBuffs like Trick Attack. And this, again, goes back to what I’ve been saying: no other DPS job is as dependent on another in terms of personal potential than BRD/MCH are on DRG.
Honestly, I think MCH suffers more without a DRG than BRD, because at least BRDs have their DoTs, which aren’t affected by piercing with regards to their ticks.

The “raid utility” of Disembowel is the reason the physical meta has been the meta since Creator. Not even the 5% nerf to it stopped it. Take away piercing or give to to another DPS/BRD or MCH, and the meta of DRG/BRD/MCH breaks because there are more options; or because BRD/MCH no longer have to rely on getting a portion of their personal damage from another job (in the event piercing is just removed entirely).

Maybe I don't quite understand how the 5% is applied, but if it's effectively a 5% flat damage buff, that would mean you would have to do 8,000 dps to lose 400. it seems you're more likely to lose about 200-250 (4000-5000dps).

The ~400 I mentioned is with regards to losing the entirety of a DRG’s toolkit. That being said, Disembowel makes up the majority of that ~400.

[LeoLupinos]

Class system. They should revamp it, allowing to chose any job at the start, it reeeeeaally sucks to play all the MSQ 1~50 (285 quests) just to be able to play the job I want (RDM/MCH/DRK/AST/SAM).

Also, 285 msq quests from 1 to 50, there's so much filler...

Also, the non voice acted msq cutscenes... It's very big turn down for any player. Sometimes we get voice acting, and sometimes not, why? This is not the most succefull MMO game? Even WoW and many F2P has voice acting, much more than FFXIV. I'm asking only for the MSQ, even the non cutscene texts. Side quest is ok to not have. My friends skip all the non voice acted cutscenes, and it annoys me SE not giving proper love to the story telling.

[SannaR]

You can be rdm or sam once you hit 50 so that's not the whole msq. There was the voice actors strike to deal with and then Yoshida got told not to do anymore spendy cut scenes after a certain one from T12. Then there's at least four different languages you have to hire va's for. I'm not sure how it is for WoW or other F2P games in the number of other languages they do the va for. I also don't know how long after the woman who did do Yugiri's voice they took before finding a new person after her death. There is also the change to the cast somewhere around 2.55 and HW which again must have taken time and money.

[Pancakes]

@FATE music toggle off option... for the love of the Twelve

@Firework effects or mount abilities effects are still thrown in the same box as battle effects. These really need to be separated

@Other people' crafting flashy effects - wish we could disable those.

@Glare - you can turn it off technically.. yet there are many weapon pieces than glare even when I have that option off.

@There's generally a need to have more customization when it comes to flashy effects.

@The sound when you level up or when you complete a quest or join fate is thrown together with BGM sound setting rather than sound effects. I like to enjoy my music and have sounds effects turned down to the minimum but I just can't avoid that one obnoxious sound whenever I level up or complete a quest.

@I can hear fish biting other people' bait and it's very misleading and forces me to avoid/move away from other people while I fish which is not the kind of attitude I like to have in a mmo. I love to be around other people. We really should only hear our own fish bites.

@Optimize music volume. Battle, mounts and fate music are still way louder than regular BGMs. I constantly have to change my volume throughout a dungeon run.

@If you play using a gamepad, when you have retainer out and you try to toggle between inventories or markets menu, you toggle between all UI elements. When retainer is out it should only toggle between you inventory/armoury chest and retainer menu. Other UI elements should be ignored when dealing with retainer. I understand some people might like it but we should have an option in settings. Personally I find it frustrating whenever I toggle between menus and I have to do it a couple times or hit "cancel" to get back to where I want it to be.

[Reynhart]

The point remains no job is utterly dependent on one for a sizable boost to their damage except Bard and Machinist.

Do you realize how many jobs could be considered dependent on BRD's damage boost by that same logic ?

And no other rBuff gives 250~300 to a single job like Disembowel does to BRD/MCH. Not even Trick Attack.

It doesn't matter how much disenbowel give to a single job. What matters is how much it gives to the raid. Do you have some calculation on how much Foe's Requiem and Battle Voice give to the raid, considering everyone benefit from it ?

[Remedi]

I think there's an app that calculates rdps, but can't remember the name of it

[MoroMurasaki]

Do you realize how many jobs could be considered dependent on BRD's damage boost by that same logic ?

It doesn't matter how much disenbowel give to a single job. What matters is how much it gives to the raid. Do you have some calculation on how much Foe's Requiem and Battle Voice give to the raid, considering everyone benefit from it ?

It absolutely matters how much disembowel gives to a single job because there is no other true class dependance that comes close to the way BRD and MCH depend on DRG. No other single buff from another player does more for any job. Even Trick Attack (aka the god of raid buffs) represents around a third of the personal dps gain from Disembowel.


Imagine if you played on a dps that lost 5% of your personal damage unless a BLM was in the party. Any party you're joining or raid group you consider you have to think about this first - do they have a BLM? If not are you willing to lose that much dps off the top guaranteed? These are questions no one but BRD and MCH have to answer right now.

[GunksFoy]

The ~400 I mentioned is with regards to losing the entirety of a DRG’s toolkit. That being said, Disembowel makes up the majority of that ~400.

This seems intentionally disingenuous though. Dragoon would still retain those abilities, so while what you're saying is technically accurate, you would still lose 150-200 dps not having a dragoon even if they gave you a piercing debuff. I don't really have a stance on this, but it definitely seems like you're trying to deceive people by inflating the number you claim to lose by not having it.

Again, I don't really have a stance as I like the idea of job synergy but don't like the idea of job exclusion. I feel like it would be more acceptable if there were certain group types that worked well together. I.e. Brd, Mch, Caster, Drg OR Monk, Sam, Caster, Caster. You get what I mean. But then you end up with meta comps and even more group exclusion. Balance is a finicky thing.

[zuzu-bq]

Blizzard 2 /10char

[GunksFoy]

Also, 285 msq quests from 1 to 50, there's so much filler...

Also, the non voice acted msq cutscenes... It's very big turn down for any player. Sometimes we get voice acting, and sometimes not, why? This is not the most succefull MMO game? Even WoW and many F2P has voice acting, much more than FFXIV. I'm asking only for the MSQ, even the non cutscene texts. Side quest is ok to not have. My friends skip all the non voice acted cutscenes, and it annoys me SE not giving proper love to the story telling.

Honestly, most of the story cutscenes are voiced. And it's my understanding that WoW has a significantly larger budget than FFXIV. And like someone else said, 4 languages, a metric fuckton of story quests to voice. It would be expensive. And they trimmed a good deal of the filler quests between 1 and 50. It's not nearly as bad now.