Power-leveling is absolutely BROKEN

[Sephrick]

People who believe FFXI End Game was like this did not play it. FFXI was one of the few MMOs that required every member of the party to actively participate. Tanking(Straight Tanking, Kiting, and Blink Tanking) + Crowd Control + Enfeeblement + Stunning + Skill Chaining + Magic Bursting(Yes FFXI End Game requires Skill Chains and Magic Bursts) + Healing. On top of that every Boss had specific mechanics that were not found in any other fight. Every fight was different. Tank and Spank implies that any group can win as long as you have a Tank and a Healer. This was absolutely never true in FFXI.

You're really stretching to make XI seem like it was anything more than standing in place. In my seven years in game, I never once saw a skill chain and magic burst on any endgame enemy.

The only person who and any sort of talent in XI was Avesta. And that's because he was a trailblazer.

Every single XI endgame event was the same. Tank, heal and zerg. That's it. Some threw a curve ball and the Thief had to sac pull, or an army of Red Mages kept a stun rotation. But none of that took any talent. Only an attention span.

XI endgame was all about throwing bodies at a situation until victory occurred.

[Zeref]

TO summarize this entire thread:

WAAAA I DONT HAVE ANYONE TO PLAY WITH PENALIZE THOSE THAT DO SO I CAN ALSO HAVE FUN WAAAAAAAA

[Destain]

TO summarize this entire thread:

WAAAA I DONT HAVE ANYONE TO PLAY WITH PENALIZE THOSE THAT DO SO I CAN ALSO HAVE FUN WAAAAAAAA

Winner.

Everyone can go at their own pace. Obviously the ability to drop out a level 50 and still get exp should be removed. Beyond that, meh. To each their own? How does it effect me if I duo to 50 and someone else pl's to 50. It doesn't. Since I got some classes to 50 before exp was put on steriods, should I be mad? No. It was and is my choice to play an incomplete game and I had fun doing it. We all knew changes would be made.

Just an opinion.

[Majidah]

Winner.

Everyone can go at their own pace. Obviously the ability to drop out a level 50 and still get exp should be removed. Beyond that, meh. To each their own? How does it effect me if I duo to 50 and someone else pl's to 50. It doesn't. Since I got some classes to 50 before exp was put on steriods, should I be mad? No. It was and is my choice to play an incomplete game and I had fun doing it. We all knew changes would be made.

Just an opinion.

Its not a matter of how others level up. Its a matter of a living breathing world, game immersion, content and most of all: pacing.

[XxOstiaxX]

Well.. not to sound rude, but with that Post you kind of proved me right.

1. Its Common knowledge that AV wasnt beat for a LONG Time, so if it was only Tank and Spank, how is that even possible?
2. You obviously never did HNM's, since you dont know that 90% of the Pre-ToAU HNM's were not Item-Popforced.
3. I still did not talk about Timeconsuming, since waiting for a Pop has nothing to do with the Fight itself.
4. By your logic every Fight is Tank and Spank, so basically all of the MMO's are Tank and Spank.
5. Did you ever fight AV, Jorm, Vrtra, etc? Or are you just "assuming"?

Meh...

Phase 1:

TANK AND SPANK <--- There you go.

Phase 2:

TANK AND SPANK + Curespam

Phase 3:

TANK AND SPANK + Kiting

Phase 4:

TANK AND SPANK + Mix of the previous Phases.

So.. i guess you are right. Those fight are really not Tank and Spank. And like i said before, WoW vs. FFXI are always ridicilious Discussion, so we should Stop here and Focus on the Topic. Which is FFXIV-Powerleveling.

Lmao! Why do you try so hard ? i mean it does not changes the truth :/

AV- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgIRMTPMPko
Jorm- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftkk-...eature=related
Vrtra- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftkk-...eature=related

All tank and spank all of them :/

Oh and mirmiron phase 2 is untankable as is phase 3 :/ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjzBdfDo6xY

[Sorel]

I understand what you are saying about risk/reward. But what's the risk? There is no death penalty in FFXIV. Do you mean the equipment durability penalty? Do you think that is enough to be considered a true risk on the player's part? No sarcasm. I'm just asking an honest question.

the risk is the tougher the mob you are fighting the longer you fight it and the more of a chance to die. if you don't reward the risk associated with doing stuff higher level then people will just spam killing r1 marmots if they give the same sp as raptors and you can kill them 10 times as fast.

why would i go and fight in a group of r50+ raptors in a group of r40's if i can go by myself and just run through a set of marmots and spriggans and get better sp? i can 1 shot the marmots, but it takes a few seconds to kill the raptors and they may kill me(if i die i get no sp at all).

So the risk is a longer fight, right? But isn't a longer fight almost guaranteed by fighting against higher level mobs anyway? So it's not a risk that can be avoided. It's more like a trade-off or a price. "Fight a tougher enemy that will take longer to kill and use up more of your character's resources in order to level faster."

But I agree that dying and not gaining XP for the fight is a legitimate risk, though. Especially if higher level fights take more time and resources (MP, HP, time-limited abilities, items, food, etc). Dying makes a player lose the time and resources spent on that particular fight.

This is why, generally, partying is so attractive. The resources of multiple players are essentially pooled, and the players most efficient at utilizing/conserving a particular resource (HP, MP, TP, etc) draw from the pool to defeat the enemy. Because a party is generally more efficient at dispatching enemies, they gain the most benefit from a reward system based on XP-chaining. A party can keep a chain going longer than a solo player because the solo player only has his own resources to expend. When a solo player tuns low on a resource, he either has to stop or he dies. Either way, he isn't getting a reward during that time.

Which I guess is why some in the community don't sit well with "powerleveling", in general. It short circuits that risk/trade-off & XP relationship described above. The higher level player uses his resources while the lower level player gets the reward.

Regardless, to your point that fighting Level 1 Marmots should not earn a player the same reward as fighting Level 50 Raptors ... I certainly agree with that on an individual fight-by-fight basis. But I'm on the fence if it should be true over a period of time.

If a player spends 2 hours fighting 200 lower level marmots, should he gain fewer levels than if he spent that 2 hours fighting 20 higher level raptors, even if the player would barely tap his resources against the marmot, and nearly fully expended his resources in every raptor fight?

[Zeref]

Its not a matter of how others level up. Its a matter of a living breathing world, game immersion, content and most of all: pacing.

Its not an issue of that at all, it's an issue of you wollowing in self-pitty because you either exhausted all your resources, or are incapable of obtaining them in the first place, the immersion and content are there from the start in an MMO, they're not given to you piece by piece, this is not a single-player story, therefor there is no pacing, which brings me back to square one, if you have nobody to play with, its your own damn fault, I will not suffer for it. or for that matter, if you have someone to play with, exhibit some damn self-control, if you don't want to get to 50 there is nobody forcing you to, i swear you are the same as those idiots that complain Anime is better than manga because hurrpacing, pacing is something you control yourself in an interactive medium, stop grasping at straws.

[Majidah]

Its not an issue of that at all, it's an issue of you wollowing in self-pitty because you either exhausted all your resources, or are incapable of obtaining them in the first place, the immersion and content are there from the start in an MMO, they're not given to you piece by piece, this is not a single-player story, therefor there is no pacing, which brings me back to square one, if you have nobody to play with, its your own damn fault, I will not suffer for it. or for that matter, if you have someone to play with, exhibit some damn self-control, if you don't want to get to 50 there is nobody forcing you to, i swear you are the same as those idiots that complain Anime is better than manga because hurrpacing, pacing is something you control yourself in an interactive medium, stop grasping at straws.

I tried being polite, so you can grab all your assumptions and shove them down your ass. Thanks.
You don't have the slightest idea of how anyone here fares in-game. So when making up all these stories you do nothing but look like a god damned idiot.

No one complained about having no one who to play with.

Try to drill into your thick skull: some (many, apparently) people actually want to enjoy the journey to 50 and not be doing end game at the beginning of the game.
FFXI delivered this. FFXIV does not.

Here's a secret: Pacing is always present. In every video game. It shouldn't be imposed by players, but by the game's DESIGNER. So people who suggest one should slow oneself down are giving terrible advise... one should play to their content.

Pacing is done with a leveling curve, prerequisites and quests. Which currently is so light it takes less than a week to get to end game, rendering all low level and mid level content useless.

God, no pacing? What a tool.

[AmyRae]

The issue here is about time. It's always about time.

The death penalty always boils down to a time penalty, no matter the MMO. If you have to collect your body, that takes time. If you have to regain your XP, that takes time. If you have to repair your gear, that takes time and the money needed to repair it takes time to collect as well. If you have to wait for "raise sickness" to wear off, that also takes time. If you died in an instance with a time limit, your valuable time is being wasted while you recover, and you might have to take the time to do the whole thing again if you don't complete it in time!

Likewise, all this stuff about powerleveling and grinding is entirely about time.

The goal of the grind is never to "prolong the experience" or "learn skills." Skills are just rewards for leveling up, and they're not hard to use once you learn what they do. They tickle the reward center of your brain to make you feel more powerful and prepare you to be more willing to grind longer for more rewards later (much, much later). So skills motivate you to grind, but they're not the goal.

The goal of any grind is to get it over with in the least amount of time possible. That translates into selecting high concentrations of low defense, inept offense mobs with juicy portions of xp and killing them non-stop in rapid succession. And what is the reward for that? Getting to endgame faster.

Why does getting to endgame faster matter? Because it lets you collect endgame gear faster. And why does collecting endgame gear faster matter? Because the more endgame gear you have, the faster you can collect even more endgame gear (because using the endgame gear you already have makes collecting more that much easier).

So you see, it's all about time. Always has been. Always will be.

[Kiote]

Lmao! Why do you try so hard ? i mean it does not changes the truth :/

AV- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgIRMTPMPko
Jorm- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftkk-...eature=related
Vrtra- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftkk-...eature=related

All tank and spank all of them :/

Oh and mirmiron phase 2 is untankable as is phase 3 :/ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjzBdfDo6xY

LMAO all of those videos are Post Abseeya.. FFXI hasn't even been a game in three years. You can't site the changes that killed a game as proof of how it existed through its life cycle. Pathetic