What's your first impression of Eureka?

[Divinemights]

I remember your exact words on a previous post speaking about how you've seen some of us 'haters' in Eureka so I'm going to "assume" that you do care ^^

Someone already confirmed that you have no arguments beside a word "boring".
Such a brilliant feedback.
I bid the word "boring" sure helps Yoship a lot on improving Eureka
WHy would expect we have no reactions when you start the flame war?
Check your own previous posts.
Don't even unerstand whatSunk-Cost Fallacy means but still want to do a flaming post

[Ruf]

To put it simple, this entire Eureka conflict is like Pepsi Vs Coke
Pepsi lovers fighting Coke Lovers while general public just treat both as refreshment drinks.
They don't care.

Wow... & that is it everyone,seems to me like Divinemights argument, & on a previous post dm claimed there was no argument just facts, well here they are!....................................

[Divinemights]

Wow... & that's everyone seems to me like Divinemights argument, & on a previous post dm claimed there was no argument just facts, well here they are!....................................

What is Sunk-Cost Fallacy?

[Divinemights]

That's basically what soda is in a nutshell, and I happen to prefer sweeter things >_>

That level of sweet is really out of Earth.
Even Diet Pepsi seems to have same level of sugar as a regular coke

[Texa]

You're both cool and stand to gain absolutely nothing by getting into a Tifa vs Scarlet style slap fight on the forums.

[Nestama]

If we all just agree to disagree, there would be literally no point to making any claim whatsoever if you can't argue for or against it. We want to debate whether Eureka is good or bad, or what aspects of it are good or bad, because the future of Eureka affects all of us

Well rather than debate on whether Eureka is good or bad (because that will get us nowhere due to differing opinions), debate on how it could be improved (for current and future steps). Even people who like Eureka will say it could be better (well, I know I do). What I doubt will ever happen is a complete overhaul of Eureka - Anemos. I honestly can't see SE shutting Eureka - Anemos down for X amount of time and then re-release it like they did for Diadem.

Personally I was hoping there would be Key Item NM's that you force pop and only your party could fight it. I'm hoping that will be a later step (maybe in 4.3X).

Also we all know that Solo is the best soft drink. Don't kid yourselves.

[HolyGlassofWater]

Well rather than debate on whether Eureka is good or bad (because that will get us nowhere due to differing opinions), debate on how it could be improved (for current and future steps). Even people who like Eureka will say it could be better (well, I know I do). What I doubt will ever happen is a complete overhaul of Eureka - Anemos. I honestly can't see SE shutting Eureka - Anemos down for X amount of time and then re-release it like they did for Diadem.

Personally I was hoping there would be Key Item NM's that you force pop and only your party could fight it. I'm hoping that will be a later step (maybe in 4.3X).

Also we all know that Solo is the best soft drink. Don't kid yourselves.

Any type of debate will help develop further insight. Eureka good or bad, how it can be improved, it doesn't matter. I just don't want any arguments discredited because of something as silly as "Well, that's just like, your opinion man." Instead, I want something like "Actually, Eureka is not bad. Eureka is different. I think this is because it brings the community together." And then you can expect someone to counter that, and so on. The beauty of civilized debate.

[Hestzhyen]

Any type of debate will help develop further insight. Eureka good or bad, how it can be improved, it doesn't matter. I just don't want any arguments discredited because of something as silly as "Well, that's just like, your opinion man." Instead, I want something like "Actually, Eureka is not bad. Eureka is different. I think this is because it brings the community together." And then you can expect someone to counter that, and so on. The beauty of civilized debate.

Your expectations of this forum are too high. But I applaud your optimism.

At this point some people ITT are entrenched and are having "MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG!!!111" arguments with each other... not many insights to be had there. If no one is willing to change their mind then there is no debate, it's just people yelling at brick walls.

[Reynhart]

All I'm saying, is that NMs have different combat patterns and mechanics.

I did Amarok for the first time yesterday, and I can confirm it has combat patterns and some mechanics...basically those of Cerberus without the chains and the stomach. Problem is, people don't care...they ignore everything, die a dozens of time and just kill it by raising, hitting and dying again and again and again...

With the Xp loss, Eureka was supposed to make players play a little safer, but since being raised negates all loss, it's doesn't work. So, first, they should fix the clipping of bosses so they'll take display priority, then allow for an Xp buffer when you reach level 20...and then make death always cost Xp, just far less if you're raised.

[Vstarstruck]

He cares. But more importantly I think his entire point was my point from last week. That it's fair to say you're doing the same thing in dungeons/raids/etc etc as in there. Those don't REALLY bring anything new to the game. But they do, and so did Euerka. Was it good? don't know... as the percent here who hate it is still small. we don't know how hated or loved it is cause everyone in game is not on here to talk about it. So saying Euerka brought nothing new.. well dungeons raids and trials do the same thing. You do the dance, then do your rotation for the loots.

And if that's his point I get it. As you can't slam Euerka which actually DOES have 2 new features to this game and not slam everything else for being the same thing all the time. Does it need work YES! It seriously does. It needs alot actually if you want my actual opinion. But his point isn't invalid, that's kindof mean to tell him that when so far as I know he wasn't told you your point was invalid.

No the dungeons are not the same, I addressed that. You are playing differently across different jobs to keep 100% uptime, and each job needs that to performed differently, some jobs more then other like BLM, needs to know the fight better so they can cast skate to the right spots while keeping 100% uptime. This means you also really need to know the fight well to properly time triple cast and swiftcast to allow longer movements to attempt 100% uptime, then you got laylines and aetheral manipulation, For MCH that means you need to know when to hold wildfire during phase outs, same with SMN with DT managment + trying your hardest to keep aetherflow on CD, for MNK it is proper use tornado kick in prep of knowing a phase change is coming, along with perfect balance and other things to be a good mnk dps (mnk is very busy)

Every job has a different way of doing these different fights to maximize uptime, in diadem 3.0 everyone does the same thing, just mash buttons to make sure you get gold, those 2 ...2 new features..? eh? pushing the annoying elemental wheel so you always get a bonus? I can claim each trial has a new feature when it has a different duty action (and again timing this right while you are on CD may be different from job to job to keep up 100% uptime) ... im not sure what the other feature you are even talking about, PoTD had its own leveling scale and way better implemented then diadem 3.0 does, if your refering to that.

If you want to throw in the maximize uptime challenge for diadem 3.0's side, then I got a simple counter for it, you can't because you cant see what is going on due to poor server performance, so you can't even perform or get close to 100% up time like you can in duties because the servers are too poor with input delays with that many people around. I also know they have too much hp for 8 people, and too little for 100 ish people, so it is hard to argue what those mechanics are even assuming.

They technically do have mechanics, it's just now that people are level 20 (most? some?) and 3-5 magicites stacked into one slot, they're dying as fast as Hunt mobs.
NM's with the 'Thunderer' theme are comparable to the Hydra and Chimera Relic trials. The rest are comparable to dungeon bosses (low levels being mini-bosses and higher levels being final bosses)

The above addresses this as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF29...youtu.be&t=524
This really shows something here, he complains about "server lag" even on a high end computer with .. average? I guess? internet speed. Up def could be better but the end of the day SE should of tested this better and know they have server problems when you have more then 24 people in a small area by now.

So with that glaring problem, there is no way you can argue the 100% up time challenge in this diadem 3.0

The comparing it to ffxi and being "old school" is also flawed because this viewpoint is only looking at a very narrow aspect, the grind. If we look at FFXI's sense of danger, it was more prevalent there. For one, people learn where to camp and where not to camp at night, as low hp has a HUGE aggro range that this place does not replicate. second, new MMOs are that, new, this starts and finishes you with the same abilities, rotations, so on, so the idea in itself defeats itself as the notion is literally impossible. For this to remind you of ffxi, you are taking a very narrow viewpoint and not looking at what made ffxi as a hole and how you dealt with problems there. A person even touched on what these other aspects are, and I think it went largely ignored. It is a simple fact diadem 3.0 is too small of a zone to give such a feel. There is no sort of puzzle or time sink moving between major places.

This means monsters are way out of place to give this kind of feel. You did not typically run across one zone, going from monsters you can beat to stuff that can one shot you in a matter of a 30 second to 1 minute length run (yes I timed it, it is a very small zone) When things threatened your party, it did not one shot you, yeah it could kill you quickly but you could escape with good kiting skills, making the monster path longer then your direct runs. You ran the risk of home pointing if you where not careful, not because of the exp loss but more so remaking the track to you destination was the real time loss. Here it is not hard to find a raise because again, how small the zone is.

In old MMOs esp ffxi and runescape, things last, this grind you do is going to be worthless 6 months? a year at most? This diadem 3.0 failed to reflect such feel of gear lasting since. The problem putting this "nostalgia" in FFXIV has to do with the combat systems as well, what they gave is in diadem 3.0 does not really fit with ffxiv's combat system overall where it worked in ffxi (also the fact old ffxi, pre abyssea was based on the idea of killing one thing , rest about 10-15 , the break given as a thf or what have you pulled. So when people pull "reminds me of ffxi" I feel that is said from looking at things from a too narrow scope.)

Making bad content basically to make the community find a way to make it "tolerable" is not a pro for said content. You are basically admitting it is so bad, it is up to the players to make it somewhat tolerable.

I hate the lockbox system because it is too much inventory bloat, I really do not want to turn them in because I don't want to go though tons of useless items, wasting my time to discord them in mass to hope for a mount. With the amount of lockboxs they throw at you, it should just been a currency.

At the end of the day I have issues with releasing a "beta" or experiment, this late in the expansion. To me such an experiment should been released on 4.0 - 4.1, if this happened I would be a lot more forgiving. Given delay after delay however, it is expected to have something more polished. I do not see how anyone can see any positive in this kind of design other then lul to finish a relic is quicker in rl time (my counter, the start up cost in time/cost of time in one sitting, is too high, something no other grind in ffxiv had)

To put it simple, this entire Eureka conflict is like Pepsi Vs Coke
Pepsi lovers fighting Coke Lovers while general public just treat both as refreshment drinks.
They don't care.

No, because that is based on pure opinion, the other can be backed with logic.

Let me ask you something Fyce, do you expect people to precede literally everything they say with "Well in my opinion..." or conclude with "Well, that's just my opinion." I've given plenty of my opinions in the past while saying "It's bad" and then explaining why I think it's bad. I think it's a bit ridiculous to make sure people are being absolutely subjective. Just because I spit out my veggies and say "That's nasty." I'm not making an objective proclamation about vegetables. If you see somebody say "it's the same as xxx, that's bad" you should automatically assume that's their opinion.

Why do you assume they are trying to disguise their opinions as facts? Because they try to argue for their position? Welcome to a debate. "Television is a bad influence." Which side is going to be for this claim? Which is going to be against?

If we all just agree to disagree, there would be literally no point to making any claim whatsoever if you can't argue for or against it. We want to debate whether Eureka is good or bad, or what aspects of it are good or bad, because the future of Eureka affects all of us

+1

I did Amarok for the first time yesterday, and I can confirm it has combat patterns and some mechanics...basically those of Cerberus without the chains and the stomach. Problem is, people don't care...they ignore everything, die a dozens of time and just kill it by raising, hitting and dying again and again and again...

With the Xp loss, Eureka was supposed to make players play a little safer, but since being raised negates all loss, it's doesn't work. So, first, they should fix the clipping of bosses so they'll take display priority, then allow for an Xp buffer when you reach level 20...and then make death always cost Xp, just far less if you're raised.

Problem with this idea is lack of level sync, it is hard to find 7 other people within 1 level of you. Basically your suggestion is too sadistic with the current state. You are going to routinely fight stuff that will one shot you over and over again because of the lack of people at the same level range. It does not feel dangerous because the zone is too small, and because of that cram too much in small areas, that simple. I do not think SE has enough server space to make zones big enough to fit such a feel and put fitting monster levels at each spot in the zone(s)