Another "Maiming" class?

[wereotter]

Maiming was made because DRGs have higher physical defense and HP than NIN and MNK but have poorer magic defense.

Except that's not longer quite the case. Dragoons now have the same magic defense as other melee jobs, but still higher physical defense. Honestly I feel like they could just combine their gear sets with Samurai and Monk at this point and eliminate maiming as a set entirely.

Also I was surprised that Red Mage didn't share scouting gear with Ninja as DEX could easily have been a primary stat for that job if it were designed more melee heavy than caster heavy.

[EllieShadeflare]

Also I was surprised that Red Mage didn't share scouting gear with Ninja as DEX could easily have been a primary stat for that job if it were designed more melee heavy than caster heavy.

They could have, if the class was named Spell Fencer. But it's Red Mage, so it's a caster.

[wereotter]

They could have, if the class was named Spell Fencer. But it's Red Mage, so it's a caster.

Red Mage, in my opinion, doesn't use its rapier enough as it's TOO caster centered. I feel like while the job is fun as-is, I would have liked to see it be more of a melee caster job using DEX as a main stat and having its magic scale of it's DEX (just like magic attacks performed by ninja)

Mage doesn't mean caster exclusively. People are already talking about Blue Mage being a tank....

[EllieShadeflare]

Red Mage, in my opinion, doesn't use its rapier enough as it's TOO caster centered. I feel like while the job is fun as-is, I would have liked to see it be more of a melee caster job using DEX as a main stat and having its magic scale of it's DEX (just like magic attacks performed by ninja)

Mage doesn't mean caster exclusively. People are already talking about Blue Mage being a tank....

Well, it might help to talk about Job history because "Blue Mage being a tank" is simultaneously a good point but also one with mixed context.

Red Mage in its history was always capable of decent melee capabilities, often having the ability to wield swords and wearing decent armour. However, they've never had ENOUGH of a focus on melee beyond perhaps FFXI, but even then another job did its role of "magic melee fighter" (Rune Fencer) to a better degree. Red Mage has generally just been a Jack of All Trades, Master of None, with its major emphasis being decently armoured, decently deadly with magic and decently good at healing. Its ability to melee was always an afterthought. As a result, its ability to use a sword isn't entirely forgotten, nor is its healing but neither are entirely major parts of the Red Mage identity.

Blue Mage, however... is weird, even among mages. Its "magic" are enemy skills, and throughout its history, Blue Mage has often had to take said spells to the face to learn them. In the case of FFXIV, it'd make sense for them to be a tank, due to their history of having to be struck and even FFV, their origin game and codifier, had them wielding shields and relatively durable through HP. Heck, some of the most notable Blue Magic spells include the support spell Mighty Guard (which is currently a Limit Break for tanks, I might add), the self heal Vampire, Strago's Rippler that exchanges status effects with enemies, Auto-Life, and even more in FFXI. It wouldn't be that hard to tool Blue Mage into a tank using their identity of "get hit get magic".

i always thought sam would have fit well as a maiming class

In some circumstances, yes. However, it seems this incarnation of the Samurai is meant to more heavily resemble a Ronin (like Samurai Jack) rather than the heavily armored Samurai we usually see.

[wereotter]

Well, it might help to talk about Job history because "Blue Mage being a tank" is simultaneously a good point but also one with mixed context.
Red Mage in its history was always capable of decent melee capabilities, often having the ability to wield swords and wearing decent armour. However, they've never had ENOUGH of a focus on melee beyond perhaps FFXI, but even then another job did its role of "magic melee fighter" (Rune Fencer) to a better degree. Red Mage has generally just been a Jack of All Trades, Master of None, with its major emphasis being decently armoured, decently deadly with magic and decently good at healing. Its ability to melee was always an afterthought. As a result, its ability to use a sword isn't entirely forgotten, nor is its healing but neither are entirely major parts of the Red Mage identity.

Blue Mage, however... is weird, even among mages. Its "magic" are enemy skills, and throughout its history, Blue Mage has often had to take said spells to the face to learn them. In the case of FFXIV, it'd make sense for them to be a tank, due to their history of having to be struck and even FFV, their origin game and codifier, had them wielding shields and relatively durable through HP. Heck, some of the most notable Blue Magic spells include the support spell Mighty Guard (which is currently a Limit Break for tanks, I might add), the self heal Vampire, Strago's Rippler that exchanges status effects with enemies, Auto-Life, and even more in FFXI. It wouldn't be that hard to tool Blue Mage into a tank using their identity of "get hit get magic".

I would disagree here. When you look at classic red mages in Final Fantasy 1, 3, and 5 they definitely were capable of being physical fighters primarily with magical backup. And so to that end getting the idea of them being more capable if melee fighting in this game isn't far-fetched. Additionally when we look at how some of these roles translated into later games, Celes in Final Fantasy 6 could be looked at as being something close to a red mage, and she was more than capable with a blade.

Also as a side note, Strago never had to be hit with blue magic to learn it. The game was coded so he had to actually see the spell being cast, which was interesting, because if he had blind status when the spell was cast, he wouldn't learn it, even if it hit him, and it would learn the spell if he wasn't blind and the spell hit another party member. Also there are many more modern blue mages like Quina and Khimari who learn blue magic through other methods making their implementation as a tank very lore friendly, and why I brought it up, but also not the only option.

[Shurrikhan]

Except that's not longer quite the case. Dragoons now have the same magic defense as other melee jobs, but still higher physical defense. Honestly I feel like they could just combine their gear sets with Samurai and Monk at this point and eliminate maiming as a set entirely.

Also I was surprised that Red Mage didn't share scouting gear with Ninja as DEX could easily have been a primary stat for that job if it were designed more melee heavy than caster heavy.

If they just keep Dexterity and Strength as meaningless retitles of the same Attack Power stat, they could as easily make all the melee DPS share gear sets, same as the ranged DPS.

Honestly, though, when they released SAM I figured they'd be making that the new Maiming class, and that they might just remerge NIN and MNK, with the gear simply reading "Strength" when worn on Monk and "Dexterity" when worn on NIN, as in many other MMOs with power stats that differ only in name.

[Luin]

Except that's not longer quite the case. Dragoons now have the same magic defense as other melee jobs, but still higher physical defense. Honestly I feel like they could just combine their gear sets with Samurai and Monk at this point and eliminate maiming as a set entirely.

god no we don't want MORE skill speed.

Scouting and Maiming Gear at this point just make it less cost effective to invest in gearing a DRG/NIN than it is to gear a caster, a tank or a healer. They really should fold Maiming and Striking gear into one category (either bringing Monk and Samurai's physical defense up or Dragoon's down because the days of Dragoon trading Magical Defense for more Physical Defense are gone) and fold Scouting into Aiming, it would clear up the loot tables and make Omni-roling less of a hassle for Melee.

Yeah, but you're still going to take a DRG and a NIN.

Besides that, MCH and SAM were added as DLC. Previously all physical DPS had their exclusive sets.

All it means is we'll see at least 1 maiming/scouting DPS next year, if they have 1:1:1 like they did in Heavensward.

Couldn't we just axe the suffixes altogether at that point?

I don't trust 75% of players to not equip monk gear when tanking

[Shurrikhan]

I don't trust 75% of players to not equip monk gear when tanking

Axing the suffixes does not remove armor classes; it just means you don't see "of fending" at the end of the name of every plate set...

I like them, just personal preference though.

Preference is why I said BRD/MCH into NIN rather than NIN into BRD/MCH as well, I think Scouting sounds better than Aiming.

I like them so long as there isn't going to be a non-tank ever permitted to wear full plate or whatever the heaviest armor type is in the collection.

And yeah, I've wanted that ever since Scouting came out. Sounds fully applicable to Archers while also just sounding outright... better.

[Jandor]

I like them so long as there isn't going to be a non-tank ever permitted to wear full plate or whatever the heaviest armor type is in the collection.

And yeah, I've wanted that ever since Scouting came out. Sounds fully applicable to Archers while also just sounding outright... better.

Nah, I'd still have them restricted by role. Tank, Healer, Caster, etc.