please consider ending the mentor system

[Ilyrian]

lol.. guess you don't know how moogle extreme works at 50, its not a joke.

if you do not do it, you wipe, no ifs ands and butts

Swap. Tank swap

[PerrinTaveren]

and did it ever occur to you the do a 5 second Google search to find anything out on your own? It's 2018 where people talk to smart devices more than they do each other and yet noobs can't look up basic questions about a mmo that's now in its 2nd expansion? Hell 90% of sprouts will not ask questions in dungeons and maybe 50% will take advice given... so maybe noobs can do a little leg work while waiting for that dungeon or trial to fill...

if you continue to quote this, you will see i wrote ''i didn't know there were even guides for ex fights etc.''. I joined at the end of ARR, there was no mentor system, no novice network whatsoever.The point i thought i was doing something wrong was when they kicked me out of the dungeon and called me a noob. I am not originally an english player so i didn't even know what noob was. I looked at everything about the game at that point, i improved myself A LOT. I had never played any mmo before so i didn't even know i need to look up for things. I bought the game, i installed it and started playing. Don't trash talk about people who were as noob as i was before. Nobody has to look for google but within the game right now, mentors NEED to help. And they should.

[Paladinleeds]

and did it ever occur to you the do a 5 second Google search to find anything out on your own? It's 2018 where people talk to smart devices more than they do each other and yet noobs can't look up basic questions about a mmo that's now in its 2nd expansion? Hell 90% of sprouts will not ask questions in dungeons and maybe 50% will take advice given... so maybe noobs can do a little leg work while waiting for that dungeon or trial to fill...

For a lot of new players coming to the game, they don't realise that they need to Google (or Bing, other search engines also exist) things. They're used to being able to learn at their own pace in single player games and not needing all this frontloaded knowledge before starting party duty in MMORPG, especially those who are familiar with SPRPG but not MMORPG. It's a culture shock in a way. So we should be more encouraging and supportive. Now I'd already played several MMOs before coming to FFXIV so I was used to it all.

However for someone whom FFXIV is their first MMORPG? Big culture shock inbound. Let's help them, not saying "Just google it." - for those who react with hostility even when we are very nice about it (for example "Have you tried this? It improves your play in that way."), then fair enough, but again it's probably the culture shock involved there. They're not used to the idea that they need to perform as part of a team. As for how we overcome that as mentors (and when I become a mentor again), I don't know. I'm willing to take on board people's suggestions on how to help people deal with the culture shock (assuming it is the culture shock at play here).

[Rowde]

LoL...

I'm dead serious.

In that long winded example you gave, where everyone just left... you arguably had enough evidence there to report that player for trolling. The problem is that it's easier to just leave rather than to take the time to report the player and potentially get them at least an interview with a GM to address their behavior.

The OP's concern was about Mentor's immediately abandoning and taking the 30 minute penalty when presented with semi-hard content, i.e. most level 50 EX Trials.
These ppl have already grown accustomed to a 30 minute timeout for immediately abandoning, so the punishment has to actually be escalated. I think 3 hour penalty is fair to keep anyone that isn't seriously interested with actually, you know, mentoring other players.

I also think 45 min before abandoning is fair amount of time for honest attempts. The fact of the matter is, you might not clear content in Mentor Roulette. You might be placed with a new player who is trying to learn the fight... I've been in learning parties for current content where progress didn't occur until 50 min in... And sure, that can happen in dungeons too, it's just uncommon. Sure no dungeon should take more than 20 min for experienced players, but that's not what you are signing up for with Mentor Roulette as a Mentor. That attitude that "no content should take more than x amount of time" is completely contradictory to the attitude a mentor SHOULD have.

Also bear in mind, that proposed 45 minutes before abandon just applies to the MENTOR, if another player decides to abandon first after 10 minutes, thus making the party "no longer complete", then the Mentor would be able to leave at that point without penalty like any other player.

[Paladinleeds]

Also bear in mind, that proposed 45 minutes before abandon just applies to the MENTOR, if another player decides to abandon first after 10 minutes, thus making the party "no longer complete", then the Mentor would be able to leave at that point without penalty like any other player.

Nothing to stop the mentor peer pressuring someone else that isn't queued via mentor roulette to make the abandon, or putting up a vote kick (which could go through) to try and free up a slot so they can leave without penalty. You have to remember, these nasty players that don't care aren't afraid to pull out all the stops. See the fake disconnects to get kicked to avoid a penalty already. I'm not against your idea, but we have to make sure as holes are spotted, we get them plugged.

[PerrinTaveren]

@Paladinleeds, yeah the most different thing was playing with other people and i was nervous. after they called me noob and kicked me, i was really really upset. I didn't even know what i did. And after that experience i hated tanking. I still do. It makes me so nervous, i feel like players still think i am a noob or something. I know i am at least above mediocore tank but still, when you play the game for the first time and people call you bad and kick you, for me, i lost my confidence for tanking. That's why mentor system should NOT be removed. It may be improved but i think i am helping people who are at the same kinda place as i was, and it makes me happy.

[Tridus]

The OP's concern was about Mentor's immediately abandoning and taking the 30 minute penalty when presented with semi-hard content, i.e. most level 50 EX Trials.
These ppl have already grown accustomed to a 30 minute timeout for immediately abandoning, so the punishment has to actually be escalated. I think 3 hour penalty is fair to keep anyone that isn't seriously interested with actually, you know, mentoring other players.

If you need to bludgeon people like this, maybe it'd make more sense to not put it into the roulette in the first place? This content is done in PF. SE just needs to recognize the reality of the situation and stop trying to inflict it on mentors and newbies who don't know better.

[Okamimaru]

'i didn't know there were even guides for ex fights etc.''. I joined at the end of ARR, there was no mentor system, no novice network whatsoever.

First mmo or not...hell it could be your first video game... if you don't know something you look it up... before the internet, games came with booklets that told you information on how to play the game... now days it's online... it's stupid to expect someone to sit down and explain what a tank is, what AoE means, why you need to wear real armor and not lvl 1 glam gears ect in a dungeon/trial/raid... that's all stuff you should have a basic grasp on... I'm all for helping but I refuse to hand hold and babysit you because you didn't think to educate yourself even a hair before making yourself a burden on the people who got stuck in an instance with you... if we are in any instance all you're gonna get is a rundown of the mechanics... if you don't know the very basics that's totally on you...

[PerrinTaveren]

First mmo or not...hell it could be your first video game... if you don't know something you look it up... before the internet, games came with booklets that told you information on how to play the game... now days it's online... it's stupid to expect someone to sit down and explain what a tank is, what AoE means, why you need to wear real armor and not lvl 1 glam gears ect in a dungeon/trial/raid... that's all stuff you should have a basic grasp on... I'm all for helping but I refuse to hand hold and babysit you because you didn't think to educate yourself even a hair before making yourself a burden on the people who got stuck in an instance with you... if we are in any instance all you're gonna get is a rundown of the mechanics... if you don't know the very basics that's totally on you...

i won't even argue with you, i didn't say explain me things.I said i ''googled'' it. You can't know you are unaware of your ignorance until you realize it. I told you i wasn't aware i was doing a wrong thing so that's why i didn't look, but when i got aware, i did. If you can't grasp that, i can't even bother explaining myself.

[Vstarstruck]

I also think 45 min before abandoning is fair amount of time for honest attempts. .

No it is not, all you are doing is increasing trolling mentors while solving nothing.
45 mins is too long to be sitting there and have people not even try to listen to you, furthermore why is only the mentor getting this 3 hr penalty? the point I was making was others need it as well who are trying to troll and sabotage.

All you are doing is trying to punish mentors for no reason. No I fully oppose that. I am sorry you are trying to punish the whole group of mentors because of a select few. That is not fair to them.