please consider ending the mentor system

[teegees]

These aren't isolated incidents but a pattern that I, and the few newer players I've gotten to know, have observed. At their best the mentors are just regular players that are less inclined to talk and in more of a rush (on average). At worst (and its sadly not uncommon) they're an active hindrance.

In any mildly challenging duty mentors will often quit straight away. A not insignificant number will actually deliberately sabotage events. I assume in an effort to make others quit or to get themselves kicked and avoid the quitters penalty.

The time wasted cycling through these "mentors" makes it very difficult to complete some harder duties.

Thanks,
A noob.

[Canadane]

Are you asking to be rid of the entire system, or just mentor roulette?
And what are you actually asking out of a mentor? The roulette is really just a fancy way of getting queues filled.

[Luin]

Are you asking to be rid of the entire system, or just mentor roulette?
And what are you actually asking out of a mentor? The roulette is really just a fancy way of getting queues filled.

Active NN moderation and removing the crown. It's only used as a status symbol.

Let mentor system be like a novice could ping a random mentor that has volunteered themselves for the function; kind of like customer support. This prevents public embarrassment newer players often have when struggling with earlygame mechanics, keybinds, macros, or settings.


I've seen players that didn't know what the Market Board was, at level 70. I've even seen players not know what a Main Scenario Quest marker was. How is a mentor in the NN expected to answer that? You say it's the marker with the spikes? No, it's easier for the novice if you go to the player, you teach them how to use the journal, then you take them to their next Main Scenario Quest is. Then they get to clearly see for themselves what the marker looks like. Is this more work? Yes, but it's not about mentor convenience, it's about effectively teaching new players.

[Rongway]

I've even seen players not know what a Main Scenario Quest marker was. How is a mentor in the NN expected to answer that? You say it's the marker with the spikes? No, it's easier for the novice if you go to the player, you teach them how to use the journal, then you take them to their next Main Scenario Quest is. Then they get to clearly see for themselves what the marker looks like. Is this more work? Yes, but it's not about mentor convenience, it's about effectively teaching new players.

It sounds like you're asking for mentors to perform handholding duties. That is not mentoring.

One does not need to go through all that to explain MSQ. There is an active help entry for it. There is a HUD element dedicated to it. Newbies don't need us to take them by the hand and walk them over to the correct NPC. At most, a brief explanation of, "MSQ are the quests that advance the main storyline. It's helpful to give it a higher priority than side quests because you will unlock many features and duties over the course of the MSQ. There is a HUD element that will always show your next MSQ if you find yourself lost. You don't see it? Maybe it's turned off. Here's how to turn it on."

[Luin]

It sounds like you're asking for mentors to perform handholding duties. That is not mentoring.

One does not need to go through all that to explain MSQ. There is an active help entry for it. There is a HUD element dedicated to it. Newbies don't need us to take them by the hand and walk them over to the correct NPC. At most, a brief explanation of, "MSQ are the quests that advance the main storyline. It's helpful to give it a higher priority than side quests because you will unlock many features and duties over the course of the MSQ. There is a HUD element that will always show your next MSQ if you find yourself lost. You don't see it? Maybe it's turned off. Here's how to turn it on."

You're greatly overestimating some players. Some really do need you to be that specific. And besides that, how do they even know the difference between a side quest or a main scenario quest? How will you describe it to them?

There's active help entries for nearly all relevant mechanics. There are still people that don't know how something as simple as the Party Finder works, or how to enter a duty unsynced, meld materia, or how to spiritbond. Let's not even talk about how many people that still dont understand weekly lockouts. On this very forum people cant count to 450, think skills like shikuchi are instant teleports, and don't know how road to 60 works (Those are all recent "bug" reports, and all could be solved just by reading tooltips).

Then, consider this. If you will describe it to them, how will you do that with at least 100+ other people in the same chatroom? On small servers it's not so bad, but even if you use /tell you'll often have conflicting information when even only a few people are trying to answer a question. This isn't even considering trolls purposely feeding false information.

Also, you focused on one example I provided only to show how inane some requests can be. It's true that many questions are more reasonable, but you need to respond to everything. And practically speaking, mentors are there to handhold. If you don't have patience you shouldn't be a mentor. You don't just give up. If someone can't do a dungeon you don't just say "go do hall of the novice" and leave. You stay and you help the player get better. Will they? Nobody knows. But if you don't try then they definitely won't.

[alimdia]

I've seen players that didn't know what the Market Board was, at level 70. I've even seen players not know what a Main Scenario Quest marker was. How is a mentor in the NN expected to answer that? You say it's the marker with the spikes? No, it's easier for the novice if you go to the player, you teach them how to use the journal, then you take them to their next Main Scenario Quest is. Then they get to clearly see for themselves what the marker looks like. Is this more work? Yes, but it's not about mentor convenience, it's about effectively teaching new players.

I think it's better to not treat new players like they are children, and that includes the patronizing baby-talking that some mentors do. Give general advice and point in the general direction, but let the new players enjoy the game by themselves, and always talk to people respectfully and like an adult.

[Aylis]

Let mentor system be like a novice could ping a random mentor that has volunteered themselves for the function; kind of like customer support. This prevents public embarrassment newer players often have when struggling with earlygame mechanics, keybinds, macros, or settings.

I do agree there needs to be a better mentor to novice matchmaking system in place so the mentors that do want to help get matched with novices who do want help. Another game who's name escapes me did something along these lines. Experienced player would flag themselves by their own choice to be added to a help list. A new player could look through this list by their own choice and pick the experienced player of their choice to be mentor matched with.

The only real issue with the mentor system here is its a mixed bag on both sides of the fence. You have mentors that do want to help with as many that just wanted the crown as a status symbol. Just as on the other side with new players who do want help mixed in with the infamous "Its my sub not yours" and "Tooltips? I don't read those! Reading is hard!" and "How dare you try and help me! Do you think your special or something?" type of players that have probably burned out a fair share of the mentors that do want to help. Neither side knows what they're going to get until its too late.

Mentor Roulette is just that, its just a roulette to help que times. It's still a mixed bag on who you get paired with.
Novice Network is just another chat channel. It's still a mixed bag depending on who is and who isn't in it at the time.

[LastFireAce]

Yea your new... So let me get you up to speed boi.
Yes Mentor are regular player just as you and I.
3 different class job at lv60
300 Commendation
1000 Dungeon
Easy stuff....
So MOST of the player just want the little Crown, because is cool, some of them think they the best or whatever.
Now thing is... True Mentor don't wear the crown unless they do the mentor roulette. They help people out and stuff with you no even knowing.
Btw Mentor Roulette is like every other Daily Roulette just to help Q time.

[Araminta]

I believe I understand where OP is coming from, I have endured similar where you get into a dungeon/trial/etc and the first one to leave seems to be the 'older' player, the Mentor.
Coming from a Mentor perspective, I don't think it should be gotten rid of completely I just feel it needs to be much much more harder to get our little crown. I feel like 3 jobs to 60 especially when you can buy one job to 60 from the Mogstation is too little, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION but having Mentors have a Tank, Healer, Melee AND Range class at current max class as well as finishing the story and having at least 2 DOL/H at previous max level seems more of a challenge, maybe even increasing the Comms...?
Just my ramble XD

quote used to show what is needed currently to get a crown, which I personally deem very very easy.

I.
3 different class job at lv60
300 Commendation
1000 Dungeon
Easy stuff....
So MOST of the player just want the little Crown, because is cool, some of them think they the best or whatever.
Now thing is... True Mentor don't wear the crown unless they do the mentor roulette. They help people out and stuff with you no even knowing.
Btw Mentor Roulette is like every other Daily Roulette just to help Q time.

[Rongway]

I feel like 3 jobs to 60 especially when you can buy one job to 60 from the Mogstation is too little, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION but having Mentors have a Tank, Healer, Melee AND Range class at current max class as well as finishing the story and having at least 2 DOL/H at previous max level seems more of a challenge, maybe even increasing the Comms...?

If I recall correctly, the requirements were purposely set so low to account for cultural differences between Eastern and Western playerbases. While most Japanese players enjoy leveling everything, it is less common among Western players, so the requirements were set low in order to ensure that enough people would be able to achieve mentor status on the non-JP data centers. Personally, I think such lax requirements were a disservice to the sprouts, as even if the requirements were stricter, there would still be plenty of mentors to go around.

Regardless, one thing I do think is necessary is updating the requirements as the game ages. Compare to roulettes: when new dungeons come out, we get locked out of DR:Expert or DR:70 until we complete the new duties. Likewise, the mentor system should require more from the mentors at each new expansion. Not necessarily right at expansion launch, but around the time the first raid is introduced, mentor status should be revoked from anyone who doesn't meet the new requirements.

For example, during the X.5 patch, an announcement should go out saying, "Beginning four weeks after the launch of Next Expansion Name, the requirements for mentor status will be as follows: [requirements here]. Any players who do not meet these requirements at that time will no longer have access to mentor status, mentor roulette, or novice network. Speak with a Smith after fulfilling the requirements to re-obtain mentor status." This would give players enough time at the end of an expansion to plan ahead so that they can keep their jobs current for the next one, and enough time at the start of the new expansion to carry out their plans to maintain mentor status without interfering with their enjoyment of the new content. At minimum, the current requirements should be increased to max level in each role and completion of the previous expansion -- I hope that much we can agree on. But even better would be one tank, one healer, one melee DD, one ranged DD.