Released a broken Eureka

[Vivi_Bushido]

My problem with this Eureka is that there's nearly NOTHING NEW.

Grinding on a new never before seen map doesn't count as new?

There's only a few new things: 3 minions, 1 mount, the relic, the spinning wheel and Pazuzu because all the other mobs are recycled. And the fate system in Eureka is just the S Hunt spawn system but with a fate marker on the Hunt instead of being invisible in the map and having to find and dumbed down because you can only spawn them by killing mobs.

I mean, if you really think about it. That's all Hunts ever were, is FATEs without a FATE indicator. I don't see that ever changing no matter what content we do. The difference in this situation for the relic grind is that SE had the option to make us grind SB FATEs or give us an instance instead. I'm grateful for Eureka over SB FATEs because now I can do FATEs cross world instead of alone on a lesser populated server.

Just to be clear, I didn't like the old relic neither the new one, but I was expecting from Eureka something new. Palace of the Dead had the pomanders to make it entertaining, there was exploration, it was an alternate way to level up and at the same time try new classes and if you wanted to go for more difficult stuff you could go down deep. Eureka right now it feels shallow and recycled content.

I hate to break it to you, but PotD is just as shallow and recycled as much as any other content. PotD much like chaining mobs inside Eureka is just kill the same monster over and over for 10 straight floors. Even the scenery is more repetitive than Eureka's. The music? That cycles between basically a youtube playlist of songs. At least Eureka has it's own consistent track. The pomanders don't really add much to change the experience when most of the pomanders get saved for the last floor or two and the boss fight on the final floor. The difference that makes many players enjoy potd more is that they are physically capable to run off and solo on their own and survive if they wanted to, unlike Eureka. Which in turn makes it easier for them to go at their own pace. In addition, it also appeals to levelers because it's the fastest way to level in the game. Doesn't mean it's the funnest way to level. If Eureka gave leveling exp form the FATEs to your job classes, I think players would quickly change their minds about how much they dislike it.

If you remember, PvP was more or less dead outside the hardcore players until they added exp to it. It's pretty clear to me that offering leveling exp is the biggest incentive this game can use to motivate players to do content. But that comes with a price. Add exp as a reward and that'll attract the bots to the grind.

Lastly, sure PotD let's you try out other jobs, I'll give it that. What it does not do is give you real situations to actually learn your rotations for those jobs. When everything dies in 3 hits, you won't figure out much for that job you're trying besides the basic combo and what some of the buffs are. SE could easily fix this by providing an instance based SSS dummy that let's players queue solo at level 1, and provide access to all of the job's skills when inside.

[Remedi]

Don‘t know if it‘s been posted already.



https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._yoships_walk/

Seems good, though I would've preferred a different approach to the lvelling, that said it's also true that if you delevel you keep your element so in a way the magicites works as a buffer but we'll see

[AlphaSonic]

snip

The way you talk about PotD says that you haven't gone deeper than 50/100 floors. You should, it adresses those "problems" you find about PotD. Except the music, which is actually good, because listening to the same music for 10 hours in a row it's tiring, variation is good IMO.

And let's not talk about the glaring optimization issues that Eureka has such as stupid currency like the Protean Crystals that don't make any sense having already Anemos crystals, lootboxes, the Anemos conversion problems, not being able to load the important things like the enemy, the AoEs and your party members in fates with a lot of people, massive disconnections, not using the Currency tab for the crystals, the stupid spinning wheel that actually is completely bland since it actually doesn't change the gameplay unlike the pomanders... (some of it is going to be adressed, but it wasn't implemented on release because SE is really bad at testing their own game, see Gordias Savage nearly impossible to clear at the beginning because they were stupid enough to not test the fights in 1 round and instead they tested them by phases and they reseted the CD for every new phase.)

[Vivi_Bushido]

The way you talk about PotD says that you haven't gone deeper than 50/100 floors. You should, it adresses those "problems" you find about PotD. Except the music, which is actually good, because listening to the same music for 10 hours in a row it's tiring, variation is good IMO.

Here is a screen shot of me wearing the Firecrest Earrings which can only be acquired from completing PotD Floor 200.



The way you accuse me of not having gone further than 100 floors because you disagree with my opinion is petty and narrow minded. Maybe you shouldn't make accusations of things you have no facts or proof of.

And let's not talk about the glaring optimization issues that Eureka has such as stupid currency like the Protean Crystals that don't make any sense having already Anemos crystals, lootboxes, the Anemos conversion problems, not being able to load the important things like the enemy, the AoEs and your party members in fates with a lot of people, massive disconnections, not using the Currency tab for the crystals, the stupid spinning wheel that actually is completely bland since it actually doesn't change the gameplay unlike the pomanders... (some of it is going to be adressed, but it wasn't implemented on release because SE is really bad at testing their own game, see Gordias Savage nearly impossible to clear at the beginning because they were stupid enough to not test the fights in 1 round and instead they tested them by phases and they reseted the CD for every new phase.)

The Protean Crystals replaces tombstones for relic exchange currencies and the Anemos Crystals exist to provide a little RNG in the amount of Protean you received. They already confirmed that they're addressing the ridiculous turn in problem. And it has nothing to do with being really bad at testing their own game. I'm sorry but that just sounds like useless whinnying. Is it perfect no? Whatever is perfect upon release? Absolutely nothing. You don't know what goes on, on the dev side of things. There're all kinds of bugs and issues. It could be something entirely different such as firing and rehiring. We have no idea what goes on behind the scenes so don't pretend you know by making accusations that it's poor game testing. They are pressured to release on a scheduled after all. And since you seem to be so in-love with promanders, you do realize all they are is buffs from a bottle right? Strength and Defense? Oh my... that totally changes my game playing experience. It's totally not a rip off of Potions of Infusions or anything.

Your argument with Gordias is completely irrelevant to this discussion since you're now trying to compare raid content with should be casual content. Furthermore is invalidated when they have already learned their lessons from Gordias by making every tier since easier. I get it you don't like Eureka, but you're making some really obscure comparisons and claiming it as facts for why Eureka is bad.

[Vstarstruck]

If Eureka gave leveling exp form the FATEs to your job classes, I think players would quickly change their minds abouthow much they dislike it.

This content was made for level 70 only, your gear synced to i300, how are you supposed to gain exp for other classes in a system like this? Let us assume it magically lets you, you do not see the problem here? People will be 70 with having NO CLUE how to play, people usually don't use Palace of the dead past 60 and they have to actually know how to play 65 + unless the other 3 does not mind a leech. Then what difference does this make to those that got everything at 70? how does gaining exp change people's minds?

Also PoTD can punish you for being brain dead, no one wants to admit wipes was made due to over pulling + running over a mine, or people running to a silver chest and running over a mine just after? I saved runs before by not following the heard but even with that, sometimes one person can't save the run if there is too many monsters... or back in HW what about healers making sure they take cleric off? PotD had risks you had to juggle, Diadem 3.0 is more brain dead then this and you can never wipe there anyway /sh rez <pos>

Also if their goal was to try give ffxi nostalgia overload there, they picked the wrong music. Remixes or more fitting music (esp nms) would been a plus

Grinding on a new never before seen map doesn't count as new?

When it is just fate trains with nothing else, no it does not.

[Vivi_Bushido]

This content was made for level 70 only, your gear synced to i300, how are you supposed to gain exp for other classes in a system like this? Let us assume it magically lets you, you do not see the problem here? People will be 70 with having NO CLUE how to play, people usually don't use Palace of the dead past 60 and they have to actually know how to play 65 + unless the other 3 does not mind a leech. Then what difference does this make to those that got everything at 70? how does gaining exp change people's minds?

Also PoTD can punish you for being brain dead, no one wants to admit wipes was made due to over pulling + running over a mine, or people running to a silver chest and running over a mine just after? I saved runs before by not following the heard but even with that, sometimes one person can't save the run if there is too many monsters... or back in HW what about healers making sure they take cleric off? PotD had risks you had to juggle, Diadem 3.0 is more brain dead then this and you can never wipe there anyway /sh rez <pos>

Also if their goal was to try give ffxi nostalgia overload there, they picked the wrong music. Remixes or more fitting music (esp nms) would been a plus

PotD only really punishes you beyond floor 100 where all progression is lost. You wipe below floor 100 and who really cares. It takes 10mins to get back to the spot you wiped. Eureka you physically level down and it could take hours to get back to the position you once had. The risks are even greater. With the exception of dying beyond floor 101+ in which case PotD wins there.

And that's not necessarily true about someone not leveling all the way straight to 70 through PotD. Is it optimal? No, it's not. But I bet you some people have leveled their jobs all the way to 70 there trying to get gold sacks or clear floor 200, or just simply running with friends over and over. I know I have leveled jobs all the way to 70 off of PvP, and you get less exp there than you do from PotD.

As for the point about Eureka giving exp, that was a rhetorical example to suggest something that would make people appreciate the content more if it was taken into consideration prior before release.

I personally don't believe that Eureka was to appeal to FFXI nostaigia at all. I feel that "Level down" only existed as a penalty to keep players from acting like brain deads and from pulling every last thing they see without consequences for their actions. I feel it's a necessary evil to reduce potential trolling and provide a sense of danger within the content. I feel anyone that get's FFXI nostalgia off of that is simply coincidental.

[Vstarstruck]

PotD only really punishes you beyond floor 100 where all progression is lost. You wipe below floor 100 and who really cares. It takes 10mins to get back to the spot you wiped. Eureka you physically level down and it could take hours to get back to the position you once had. The risks are even greater. With the exception of dying beyond floor 101+ in which case PotD wins there.

People value their time differently then you I guess, but you are incorrect, also you must forgot what it was like when it was new with 1-50. Very frustrating having 40-50 min runs, wiping to mistakes that is made from bad decisions. Also when you wipe you where done, no redos, no /sh raise <pos> I never had to hp once in diadem 3.0, dying is meaningless. Also you had less control over damage control in PoTD. In diadem 3.0 only your self is to blame, in PoTD it cam be completely one person's fault for the wipe and out your control completely to try salvage it. No matter how you slice it, PoTD is harder and more interesting then diadem 3.0

I went back and read some more comments:

I don't agree, I dont think it lacks tools theres introductory quests and most people in the instance will be more than happy to help and I dont think it was rushed, I think they waited all this time to have it better and its better to look at it like a work in progress that is workable and when they finally have player criticism will be improved it's kinda silly to find it broken.

This diadem requires too much time in one sitting, the other relics did not have this issue. Yeah actually they did, umbrite and unidentifieds when they were new in heavensward took MUCH longer than Eureka does, people had weapons in two days for tose steps they didnt for much, much longer also the fact that you did a relic in XI is kinda irrelevant.

I also spent 2-3 hours across 5 days I think, and I still think it is the worst most boring thing 2-3 hours isnt enough time to fairly judge content as expansive as this, also I dont see why I should have to read a specific thread which is probably an echo chamber just to respond to you.

this is 4.25, being a beta has no defense here. They had no player feedback til now please say how they were supposed to make it perfect on release?

it gets annoying seeing people trying to defend it, annoying to see SE white knights insulting people for disliking it. I'm not a "white knight" whatever that is, I've acknowledged Eureka has its flaws its far from perfect but it is not broken and I believe it'll be better when they adjust future updates with feedback that they now have and im sorry just because people insult you (which ive not done) doesnt even in the slightest mean the content is broken.

In-fact 1-2 hrs should be simply easier with easier to solo and better introductions to let people warm up to it better. it's an MMO we've known the basic concept of what Eureka was for months we knew it was an open world-ish with an independant levelling systems if you've been following it at all you would know this and wouldnt be complaining and it's an MMO it's meant to be played cooperatively they're not to make purely solo play more rewarding than group play, they're incentivising people to work together hence why every quest doesnt have markers and FORCES you to ask other people.

1. No it did not, it did not require as much time IN ONE SITTING to progress on it, I was not talking about total time spent. I rather do HW/ARR relics, where I can progress a bit of a time in one sitting, and have different alt methods on progressing on them.

2. It is too enough to judge. The design is a blatant flaw if you sit here and tell me it is not enough time to judge, and it is the same thing over and over again anyway, wth really?

3. Invalid argument, plus they knew people did not like diadem, they flat out said it was not going to be diadem and it will be new and innvoative, they did not give us that. So they knew what people wanted, so indirectly, yes they did have player feedback on it.

4. ... I really can't comment on this.. it is trying to relate points unrelated.

5. They said it would be soloable, this whole statement is invalid. In the end they did not live up to "it is going to be new and innovative". For the no markers thing, it just let me confused. I thought it was bugged and I did not know what to do. I did not pick up on it till my SO was talking to someone about helping them on a quest. I basically said there is no quest, nothing in my log, no marker, wth are you talking about? after a while I just went to the supposed spot to complete this ghost quest and sure enough it was there.

[Vivi_Bushido]

When it is just fate trains with nothing else, no it does not.

You would rather have no new map at all and just grind old world FATEs again and again and again? Because that's not going to change. That's all hunts are. FATEs. That's all this game can do is FATEs. At least the new map adds verity. I am just grateful we got that at all. It's progress in a forward direction of some kind away from traditional norm.

People value their time differently then you I guess, but you are incorrect, also you must forgot what it was like when it was new with 1-50. Very frustrating having 40-50 min runs, wiping to mistakes that is made from bad decisions. Also when you wipe you where done, no redos, no /sh raise <pos> I never had to hp once in diadem 3.0, dying is meaningless. Also you had less control over damage control in PoTD. In diadem 3.0 only your self is to blame, in PoTD it cam be completely one person's fault for the wipe and out your control completely to try salvage it. No matter how you slice it, PoTD is harder and more interesting then diadem 3.0

Actually, you would be incorrect. If you wiped on floor 49, you restarted back on floor 41. It has always been that way ever since PotD existed. Secondly, PotD did offer a few methods of revival. Phoenix downs dropped from bronze chests, and the thing that revives all dead players on the map when it is activated. Eureka, you have to hope on the goodness of someone's heart that they willing go out of their way to run through monster infested territories of mobs 10 levels above their own to revive some stranger.

5. They said it would be soloable, this whole statement is invalid. In the end they did not live up to "it is going to be new and innovative".

They also said PotD would be soloable, and look how long it took someone to clear all 200 floors alone. Eureka is arguably soloable under special conditions similar to PotD. In addition, the mobs ARE soloable. You just have to approach them with the right tool kit, again, not any different from doing PotD solo. If you refer to NM then they warned everyone that you would want to take these on with other players. Secondly, the monsters do scale with the number of players within the zone, so in theory, you could solo a NM if you were say, the only person in the entire zone.

[RiyahArp]

The problem with POTD 101 is that Yoshi thought for some reason it was more important to make it a solo competition than stuff we should actually do. He added a leaderboard, which is useless, and the whole "must start from 51" thing is totally pointless if all you want to do is do the content like the rest of POTD, just harder. He spent effort on that, and most people gave up on it, because it's not how they used POTD.

Eureka is soloable, its just for some reason, Yoshi felt it should be practically impossible to get any real exp from it past the first couple of levels. So you can go exp solo, but its incredibly unrewarding for time spent.

The dev team seems to have one single vision for its content, and constantly gets surprised when players don't share that vision.

[Vstarstruck]

You would rather have no new map at all and just grind old world FATEs again and again and again? Because that's not going to change. That's all hunts are. FATEs. That's all this game can do is FATEs. At least the new map adds verity. I am just grateful we got that at all. It's progress in a forward direction of some kind away from traditional norm.

I would of them just gave us a book, do x fates, kill x things, have dailies on them like singing clusters in hw then diadem 3.0 Least in that way you are helping people clear content for the first time, bringing back life on your world, so people are not alone that just happen want to use a few fates to help level, and like the speed up. (I like yo kai doing this as well, helps other people too)

Actually, you would be incorrect. If you wiped on floor 49, you restarted back on floor 41. It has always been that way ever since PotD existed. Secondly, PotD did offer a few methods of revival. Phoenix downs dropped from bronze chests, and the thing that revives all dead players on the map when it is activated. Eureka, you have to hope on the goodness of someone's heart that they willing go out of their way to run through monster infested territories of mobs 10 levels above their own to revive some stranger.

I know how PoTD works tyvm. it is either you are to understanding me what I am talking about, or you are twisting what I say on purpose for some unknown reason. Do not tell me I am wrong on something I am right about, I know what I am talking about so I'll just hit the ball back to you and say "no you are incorrect"

look back when it was 1-50 only, it was not uncommon for 41-50 to take 30+ mins, sometimes you where pushing 10 mins or less left when you reach the final boss. There was a decent chance of wiping on one of the last floors or the boss it self. floors 1-50 where nearfed HEAVILY when 51-100 came out, both size in floors and making it easier in general (for some reason they left 11-20 alone in that regard. The range of slime blow up is huge af.) really shocked they pretty much nerfed everything (smaller floors, higher weapon/armor caps to make things more pushover, all aspects of 1-50 was nerfed except those slimes.)

For diadem 3.0 you are acting like tossing raises isn't common.. Are you on a dead data center or something?

I raise you
you raise me
We are a big raise casting family
With a swiftcast and a jumpcheer here and there
wont you join me in the raise fate train too?

They also said PotD would be soloable, and look how long it took someone to clear all 200 floors alone. Eureka is arguably soloable under special conditions similar to PotD. In addition, the mobs ARE soloable. You just have to approach them with the right tool kit, again, not any different from doing PotD solo. If you refer to NM then they warned everyone that you would want to take these on with other players. Secondly, the monsters do scale with the number of players within the zone, so in theory, you could solo a NM if you were say, the only person in the entire zone.

Invalid comparison. Item A is supposed to be accessible by everyone to give people something to do that does not like raiding. Item B was meant for pure challenge and prestige. They even said that and the reason they had a scoreboard. You could very well solo it, being the first to solo to 200 is a great feat. you are saying being in an airplane 10k meters is the same as being on the ground because you are still on earth.. .. i can't believe you pulled this.

The dev team seems to have one single vision for its content, and constantly gets surprised when players don't share that vision.

I really think it would be helpful if they had someone able see the bigger picture and the possibilities people may see things outside that one track scope.