The WOL and Mass Murder

[Wintersandman]

Anyone who believes the WoL is truly innocent has fallen trap to the Eorzean propaganda machine. We just disrupted an entire region because one person wanted his throne back. Otherwise the region was at peace. Sure some people were suffering but even after we put the king back on the throne, people are suffering. At least the empire had the capability of protecting it's followers. It's too bad that we just put in Usurper on the throne.

[Cilia]

Anyone who believes the WoL is truly innocent has fallen trap to the Eorzean propaganda machine. We just disrupted an entire region because one person wanted his throne back. Otherwise the region was at peace. Sure some people were suffering but even after we put the king back on the throne, people are suffering. At least the empire had the capability of protecting it's followers. It's too bad that we just put in Usurper on the throne.

Several counterarguments:

1. Hien was fine with either fighting for Doman liberation or killing himself and allowing it to become an Imperial province, depending on what the people wanted. The Namai villagers rising up against Zenos of their own volition, despite the hopelessness of doing so, was taken as a sign that the citizens did not want Imperial rule.

2. Doma was not "at peace," insomuch as a tyrant ruled the nation and used her power to terrorize its citizens as vengeance for the unpunished cruelties inflicted on her by her family due to cultural issues.

3. "Some people were suffering" is a massive understatement as to the state of Doma's citizens under Imperial rule. The people were being killed at the acting Viceroy's whim and deceitfully forced into effective slavery for the actions of people in an unaffiliated confederacy - and that's just what we have firsthand accounts of. It's reasonably safe to assume that the Imperial MO - forced conscription, use of the local women for "comfort," etc. - held true as well.

4. Hien has sat on the throne for a month or two; change does not happen overnight, and no matter who rules there will always be people dissatisfied with the state.

5. While the Empire had the capability of protecting its residents (or followers, if you prefer) there is no indication it did so in Doma (and we have a firsthand account of its soldiers actively neglecting their duties to a citizen in Ala Mhigo), and no record of the Empire improving the overall quality of life in any conquered provincial territory.

6. Hien was the rightful heir to the Doman throne unless he has an elder sibling we are yet unaware of. I fail to see how he could usurp the throne in any way, regardless of who fought for him.

[Wintersandman]

6. Hien was the rightful heir to the Doman throne unless he has an elder sibling we are yet unaware of. I fail to see how he usurped the throne.

Rightful is totally up to interpretation. If rightful is based upon bloodlines sure. But Bloodlines don't necessarily guarantee a right to rule. Should be put to a vote Yotsuyu or Hien. Then will we truly see what the residents of the region prefer.

[Cilia]

Rightful is totally up to interpretation. If rightful is based upon bloodlines sure. But Bloodlines don't necessarily guarantee a right to rule. Should be put to a vote Yotsuyu or Hien. Then will we truly see what the residents of the region prefer.

Democracy is preferable, but Doma was ruled as a monarchy prior to the Imperial invasion and occupation; unlike Ala Mhigo there is no indication the people were dissatisfied with that, so the country returning to that form of government after shaking off the Empire is hardly surprising.

You could put it to a vote, if you like... but given Yotsuyu was murdering the Domans while Hien was willing to die for them, the winner of such a vote is all but a foregone conclusion.

[Yuriane]

This entire thread is just...
Yikes

[YianKutku]

Otherwise the region was at peace. Sure some people were suffering but even after we put the king back on the throne, people are suffering. At least the empire had the capability of protecting it's followers.

I think this has been shown to be empirically false.

The Empire is not protecting its followers. It may have the capability to do so, but it clearly has no interest in it. The proof is in the Echo flashback to Fordola's childhood, where Fordola's parents, clearly supporters of the Garlean Empire, are attacked in the streets, while Imperial soldiers disinterestedly look on.

As for the suffering of the people, this is a false equivalency. The game's story very clearly shows that life under Hien is, in general, better than life under Zenos and Yotsuyu. (We do not know whether life under Kaien was better than life under whoever was in charge of Doma before Zenos, but I see that as irrelevant to the point at hand, since we speak now of Hien, who is not Kaien.) There may be disagreements on whether this is a believable narrative, but it is what it is.

[NoblePigeon]

Anyone who believes the WoL is truly innocent has fallen trap to the Eorzean propaganda machine. We just disrupted an entire region because one person wanted his throne back. Otherwise the region was at peace. Sure some people were suffering but even after we put the king back on the throne, people are suffering. At least the empire had the capability of protecting it's followers. It's too bad that we just put in Usurper on the throne.

This is exactly what I would imagine imperials would post in Internet forums if the internet existed in the setting.

Rightful is totally up to interpretation. If rightful is based upon bloodlines sure. But Bloodlines don't necessarily guarantee a right to rule. Should be put to a vote Yotsuyu or Hien. Then will we truly see what the residents of the region prefer.

You’re right, they’d vote for the puppet ruler that was universally hated in Doma, known for her cruelty against her own people, appointed by the people that brought peace and prosperity to the land by systematically destroying large swathes of the region when the Domans had the audacity to rise up against their oppressors.

Something something Eorzea is just as bad, the Empire was only fighting a small minority of Doman rebels in the uprising, etc. etc.

[Cilia]

The Empire is not protecting its followers. It may have the capability to do so, but it clearly has no interest in it. The proof is in the Echo flashback to Fordola's childhood, where Fordola's parents, clearly supporters of the Garlean Empire, are attacked in the streets, while Imperial soldiers disinterestedly look on.

This actually goes a step further. Fordola and her parents weren't just supporters or followers of the Empire, they were actually citizens. The Imperial soldiers actively chose to be derelict in their duties to Imperial citizens out of racism and laziness. (How unprofessional.)

Furthermore, this defining moment in Fordola's life occurred when Gaius was the viceroy of Ala Mhigo, so Zenos' malign influence can't be used as an excuse.

[Uail]

....................I need a Drink.

[Delily]

Anyone who believes the WoL is truly innocent has fallen trap to the Eorzean propaganda machine. We just disrupted an entire region because one person wanted his throne back. Otherwise the region was at peace. Sure some people were suffering but even after we put the king back on the throne, people are suffering. At least the empire had the capability of protecting it's followers. It's too bad that we just put in Usurper on the throne.

Did you miss the part of the story where none of the Eorzean city states had a thing to do with the liberation of Doma? It was literally a side mission run completely by the Scions while everyone else waited in Ala Mihgo. You're also leaving out the part where Hien made sure the people wanted to rebel and the parts where the farmers made it clear they were afraid of the Empire.