Should FF14 take a new route? Discussion

[Recaldy]

Action combat please. The exp model can stay the same with instances giving out majority of the exp. I want the most common thing in the game (combat) to be fun and loosely different each time.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Okay please, enough with the doomsaying, I've been hearing that "the game is dying" since ARR launched, every single time some new content is added that a section of the community did not like spawns countless claims of "the game can't endure like this!" and "I'm leaving forever!" Really if the doomsayers was to be believed the game should have 'died' ten to twenty times by now. Yet it's still here and still going strong.

Is FFXIV perfect? Of course not. Can it be improved? Of course it can. But to claim that Yoshi isn't listening to player feedback simply because Eureka turned out different to what players had been expecting is simply wrong. It's simply not possible for SE to implement every single 'idea', gameplay concept or change that players ask or request. That is simply being realistic. They have to draw a line somewhere in order to keep the game consistent and balanced.

Even if it means having to say no to player requests. It does not mean SE and Yoshi "does not listen." He does listen, far more than probably any other game developer. And it is clear he takes such negativity very very seriously, that is burdens him greatly when he has to say "no" to players' requests because they are either unworkable or cannot be accommodated in the game's design.

Perhaps you ought to read the initial post before leaping to SE's defense. Nowhere did Kaiva claim FFXIV was doomed to failure nor did she even directly reference Eureka. She simply posited whether FFXIV can innovate beyond its stale state, or are people content with the game as it remains.

As for your post itself. You are, again, being willfully disingenuous. No one asked Yoshida to implement every change recommended. What has been requested in some change. In fact, tell me what has changed from Heavensward? Even the JP playerbase has repeatedly brought up the stale progression system, specifically tomestones. Yet we are quickly approaching year five without a single deviation. Is it so much to ask they do something different within a five year period? Part of Eureka's problem is the reward structure—which suffers primarily due to them having no alternative lest they invalid another piece of content. A lot more people would feel justified in grinding out Eureka had the ilvl been i360 and i355, respectively; if not higher. Alas, that renders most of the drops from Rabanastre v2 DoA.

I have no doubt he listens. That does not absolve him from criticism. Who asked them to focus a considerable amount of resources on Perform or Replay—features with either little lasting value or have been heavily restricted? Who asked for job gauges that serve little purpose on the majority of jobs? FFXIV absolutely has its charm, and I stress it's far from a doom and gloom situation. That being said, it lacks innovation. And it has for a long time now.

[RiyahArp]

I think the problem is that they are using this game to beta test systems for the future. Like the big thing about eureka is that we now have a true cross-server persistant zone, albeit one that has a 3 hour time limit. One that you can invite parties or not, which is a huge step up technically from the current instances. You can even tell people in them. Same with the companions. Testing friendly AI through them.

If they finally realize these systems in this game, it might fix a lot of the problems we have with it. But its still testing it feels like; the features are released, but dont go beyond shallow uses of them into gameplay.

I also think staff might be diverted into their next MMO some; it's about time they start development on it, and it might be draining people from the core project.

[NovaLevossida]

Who asked them to focus a considerable amount of resources on Perform or Replay—features with either little lasting value or have been heavily restricted?

I think that stuff is important. The value in that stretches all the way back to 2001: short essay link

But that stuff is only good to develop if the rest of the game is in a good position. You can't have XIV in its current state, repackage Diadem another time, and then develop things like that. You need to get the core of the game in proper order, and then you can focus on "extra" stuff that attracts or serves an audience outside of that.

I think the problem is that they are using this game to beta test systems for the future.

I do not think this is the case. Each time they've tried new content and failed (Diadem mainly), they've been excused by a large portion of the playerbase as laying the foundation for something better later on. When you get Diadem 3.0 (Eureka) with player / mob display problems and too many DoTs on the mob coupled with Diadem 1.0 style mob grinding that leads to FATEs, you can't call that beta testing if they should know better.

[SenorPatty]

The game isn't going to die. SE's smart enough to do what needs to be done but only when the overall majority of the playerbase of all regions have had enough. Eureka sucks? Okay but are people still playing? How many people have cancelled their subs since then? What's the overall response global-wide? That's all things SE look at whenever they add content. That's how they study the metrics and implement according to those metrics even if those implementations are band-aid at best.

The shift that the game needs will only occur when the playerbase, again, speak with their wallets. That will be the only time SE will actually consider doing something drastic to the game. Until then, its clear their focus is entirely on retaining casual players as much as they can (not casual in the what type of content you do but rather how much time spent) and avoiding solutions that would force them to change their spaghetti code. This is why we'll keep getting abridged content. This is why we'll keep getting content that can be completed with minimal gameplay. This is why old and/or side-content won't be revitalized. Its also why we won't get overworld content.

FF14 is just simply a game at this point that managed to keep breathing despite slowly drowning and every time it looks like its going to sink to the depths, the devs manage to push it up just enough to keep getting a bit more air. It's how I see and its why I'm letting my sub run out. I don't hate the game and I've made peace with how they want to drive it but I also know that I can peacefully get off the ride for awhile and wait for the next bus that will be packed with content when I'll come back.

[RiyahArp]

I do not think this is the case.

I'm talking more at a systems level rather than a content one. Like their problem is they are very good at the mechanical aspect of gameplay. like AI and stuff, but they really flounder with using that consistently and in gameplay. I'm willing to bet Eureka took so much development time because they were focusing more on creating an instance that acts like a zone over what to do in that zone. They are ace at technical problems, but that seems to take all the energy. My point is it would be ok if they realized this down the road into gameplay, but they tend to not do that.

[Fredco191]

At the end of 4.5 a new primal comes out of nowhere and destroys the planet. I data-mined it.

I also found this.

Furthermore. Players that have been playing since Heavensward will attain Legacy status. But don’t get upset current Legacy players! You will attain ULTIMATE LEGACY status and get 5.0 for free along with 50 Fantasias. (They’re trade-able in case you don’t want some or any of them)

[Dalmacus]

Is FFXIV perfect? Of course not. Can it be improved? Of course it can. But to claim that Yoshi isn't listening to player feedback simply because Eureka turned out different to what players had been expecting is simply wrong. It's simply not possible for SE to implement every single 'idea', gameplay concept or change that players ask or request.

Except that it turned out to be what every players who did not want it to be. DIADEM. All they did is add LEVELS to it and that dumb gimmick of the element magia board. If you remove the LEVEL gameplay from EUREKA it's no different from Diadem at all.

[Granyala]

I like the combat system and I like it's speed. (I'm not the youngest kitten on the block anymore )

What I do not like is that from a healers PoV most content has me DPSing 80% of the time b/c it's all freeloot/trivial stuff.
I'm not asking for heaps of instagibs or anything ridiculous (after all most people run the content in uncoordinated PuGs) but I'd like to be able to heal a wee bit more in dungeons. Maybe make it a 60/30 split?

Also please, for the love of Hræsvelgr, stop with the idiotic and uninspired asia grinder side content. Divert more resources to what FF-XIV and MMOs do well in general: instanced content with interesting mechanics instead of mindless open world zerg fests.

Addendum: also do NOT fall into the trap WoW has fallen into: over-rewarding boring content. Content should be fun in itself and the rewards should be the icing on the cake. I see tons of people pushing through Eureka despite telling me that they hate it because they desperately want some reward from it.

[silentwindfr]

While I have unsubscribed as of today (I looked at Eureka as the last hope for interesting content) and don't have much time remaining before I can no longer post here, I'm not sure it's going to get any better while YoshiP is in charge. He's against interesting stats on gear and doesn't want to deviate from the formula that worked for relaunching the game in 2.0. There was a large amount of vintage MMO content to take inspiration from, and he just repackaged Diadem and took inspiration from leveling camps rather than endgame activities.
the formula that worked for relaunching the game in 2.0. There was a large amount of vintage MMO content to take inspiration from, and he just repackaged Diadem and took inspiration from leveling camps rather than endgame activities.

I have no plans to resubscribe until 5.0 at the earliest (if I do at all), and I think it's going to take YoshiP stepping away to get anything truly interesting to happen. I'm just not going to pay them anymore for cutting back the amount of content, delivering the same stale content cycle, and repackaging Diadem again. So I think we need someone else. YoshiP gets all the credit in the world for turning FF14 around with ARR. It just never evolved since then.

i will be blunt i don't see anyone take over yoshi-p able to do better...
yes FF14 is classical in the form and need evolution. however, in the form of 1 patch with a lot of content every 3 month they are forced to take decision. plus is not a game that have a huge team of hundred person behind, if you remember while the fanfest of tokyo we did seen the whole dev team... they was like 20+. and they can still produce far more content than WoW or any other mmorpg outside.
without forget that for a long time FF14 didn't receive the support needed, forcing even the hand of yoshida to create the mog station, even if i'm not happy of this move, most of the cash earned for it stay in FF14 what is not the case of the sub.

yes, FF14 need changement.... but do it means we need to change the director that have already take soo many risk and have time after time expand the game with the little support he did receive? clearly no... i'm scared to imagine anyone able to take is place. since SE is not a company that is specialized in mmorpg, worst, mmorpg as genre is declinning for age.

why? because of the dev AND player! yes dev was lazy to try new thing, but player are the one at fault, let me ask if tomorrow they decide to not focus on raid as much as now, what do you think will happend? people will scream and say that is not a true mmorpg if is end is not raiding. and that what did lead to that situation and why the mmorpg genre is slowly dying... because player refuse changement, refuse to acknowledge that end game can be something else than raiding. even pvp community have a hard time to survive because of this and they still receive a very big support...
and on other hand no real midcore content, no real challenging content for small group and such... yes FF14 need to change, no yoshida don't need to go and yes, player need to accept that if thing change, some of them "favorite" stuff will not be the center of the game, if not...we can discuss all day... nothing will change.

you want change, yes! but accept changement. is not yoshida that need to change is the way player see mmorpg that is slowly killing it that need to change. mmorpg =/= raiding! mmorpg is a game where you encounter and go to adventure with different people, with small or large group... but raiding was never the goal of mmorpg nor must be what define it! mmorpg is an adventure, a chance to experience a world and face different challenge! more important different form of challenge! right now for over 10 years the mmorpg = raid only, what did make it rot slowly. until people accept that the end game can be many thing and not only raiding we will not see changement.

you want changement, begin by change the way the player see the mmorpg and maybe is possible