What's your first impression of Eureka?

[Jijifli]

- You don't know how much ressources they invested on it.
- You don't know how much time they actually worked on it since the announcement.
- You don't know how many iterations they went through.
- You don't know if development started as soon as they announced it, or if it was scheduled to start later.
- You don't know if there were technical difficulties creating the content that could've delayed it for a long time.

-We can see how many of those resources were reused at least
-Announcing it 17 months ago means it at least passed the idea stage, which makes it technically been worked on
-Usually going through multiple iterations improves it, so how bad was it before?
-Like said before, announcing something generally means you already started working on it. You wouldn't announce a feature you've done nothing with, would you?
-We don't know the difficulties, true. We do know that sapped from other content areas though like dungeons to make it though.

Also, you don't know these either. For all we could know, they started 17 months ago, or maybe 24, or maybe just last month. For all we know it could have crashed the game, or items didn't drop. You're right, none of us know that.

That doesn't change the fact they still announced it and even stated some of SB's content will be shrunk in order to put focus on Eureka, such as why we only got 1 dungeon in 4.1.

[Reynhart]

Nobody of us has any numbers so going around and saying that we are the minority is false too...

The people who actively voice their concern about Eureka are a minority. The people who actively voice their appreciation of Eureka are a minority. The people who actively voice whatever opinion they have on the forum, reddit or any game site are a minority.
So, whatever side you're on, you can't use threads to prove what the playerbase "mostly" thinks.

[Fyce]

Ppl wont do bad content no matter the reward?! Where did Kaonis even type that in what you quoted???, you are transforming the sentence, "Ultimately if people aren't having fun with the system then whatever reward you put in won't matter" doesn't mean that at all. & to counter argument what you are trying to say, I even posted myself that I will do content to play with others while I might not enjoy it at all.

Here's the full quote, since you seem too lazy to check the converstion yourself:

It's up to players, it's always up to the players. Diadem died because all it was was a shallow carrot on a stick system. The carrot wasn't worth it so people quit fast. They gave a slightly better carrot this time (relic), but it ultimately won't be enough to keep players. Ultimately if people aren't having fun with the system then whatever reward you put in won't matter.

This was an answer to me saying that it was up to SE to put good rewards to keep players in Eureka. He said that people would quit anyway, no matter the rewards. And now he's telling me that people kept doing stupid grind for the reward itself.
Either people quit regardless of the reward. Or they stay and keep playing bad content for the reward. It can't be both.

Please read this thread instead of just commenting on the tip of the iceberg without having the full context.

Also, you don't know these either. For all we could know, they started 17 months ago, or maybe 24, or maybe just last month. For all we know it could have crashed the game, or items didn't drop. You're right, none of us know that.

You are right, I don't know these either. Which is exactly why I didn't make any argument using based on that. And that was my main point: I don't make baseless assumption to criticize something. I do with the information I know I have, and I don't extrapolate simply because hating every aspect of Eureka is the new trend.

[Vstarstruck]

"People won't do bad content no matter the reward!"
"People do bad content just for the reward!"

What I find interesting in our argument, is that I don't even have to take part in it.

- You don't know how much ressources they invested on it.
- You don't know how much time they actually worked on it since the announcement.
- You don't know how many iterations they went through.
- You don't know if development started as soon as they announced it, or if it was scheduled to start later.
- You don't know if there were technical difficulties creating the content that could've delayed it for a long time.

You assume the worst case scenario without considering anything else. Of course I won't listen to all the baseless assumptions you make.

We do know 4.0 +, ALL OF SB+ had less content to work on it. It would help matters a lot, did you start playing this game after SB released? It would explain a lot why you do not understand the impacts it had on the game. I am sure we would had tribes, SB's version of palace of the dead out, if it was not for Eureka. They said they where going to do things like that, and here we are over half way done with the expansion, with them just releasing relics and at release, outdated content. With everything we lost, for Eureka's development, it does not show. It does not matter what problems they have or how badly you want to white knight SE, what I see here is they should of withdraw Eureka and not make it at all if they had so many problems, this is a MASSIVE failure, and breaks EVERYTHING they claimed that this would be when they kept announcing.

At the end of the day Eureka took a lot of content from being made, and they have nothing to show for it. That is the bottom line, people have full right to be upset over that.

Nobody of us has any numbers so going around and saying that we are the minority is false too...

Lets look at the known facts: The japenese forum is mostly angry with that, the highest amount of likes are with posts that are asking if this is fun or if this was tested, talking about how this just copied the bad stuff from old MMOs and not the fun parts, how they dont want any further Eureka content, how they are hurting and tired. They bring a lot of the same arguments we do. The german forum is also mostly against it. (No idea about the french forum). We have a post about the slide what they have learned from 1.0 with over 100 of likes and a thread about the fear for the future of this content with over 160+ likes. Reddit right now is a bit more positive but the likes there are still low, while the post that called it a trainwreck got over 1800 likes (and I believe that this is after they substract the dislikes?). Gamefaqs also is quite mixed and tended towards the negative side. So the evidence we have right here is quite negative.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards...1852/897918766
Wow, you went out of your way to know your stuff, I did not even think of gamefaqs, this post feels like it was directed to Fyce

[Divinemights]

Nobody of us has any numbers so going around and saying that we are the minority is false too...

Lets look at the known facts: The japenese forum is mostly angry with that, the highest amount of likes are with posts that are asking if this is fun or if this was tested, talking about how this just copied the bad stuff from old MMOs and not the fun parts, how they dont want any further Eureka content, how they are hurting and tired. They bring a lot of the same arguments we do. The german forum is also mostly against it.

I am going to call you make up the fact. I read/write Japanese and I am pretty sure that ongoing discussion in Japanese forum is mix of positive, negative, and request for a better player search interface. Did I ever said majority of players loved Eureka? I only said people dislike the Eureka do not represent the FF14 player base.

[Kaonis]

"People won't do bad content no matter the reward!"
"People do bad content just for the reward!"

What I find interesting in our argument, is that I don't even have to take part in it.

Well on this I can actually agree with you. Because it's impossible to have an argument when one side can't muster a real argument but rather resorts to dishonesty. You've been quote mining, cherry picking, straw manning, and broadly generalizing others arguments all throughout this thread. If you won't be honest then I'm done trying to respond to you.

[RiyahArp]

I can see the good sides and bad sides to it, but I still think its pretty bad.

There is a lot of group solidarity now, and its fun to interact with ppl cross zone.

However, the experience is pretty miserable.

The higher the average level of players becomes, the more they seem to tackle all fates, from level 10 up. For players 5-8. those fates are mostly dying a lot and doing zero damage, getting murdered on the way. Tanks can't tank, healers draw aggro and get one shot, dps do barely any damage. You essentially get carried if you are not the exact or within two of the level.

Even if you decide to be a raise bot, the culling of player models makes it hard. I find i get carpal tunnel if i solo or party, since the chain structure doesn't lend to taking breaks well; people just nonstop it to pop NMs.

I have to say this though, just because players found a way to cheese Eureka, doesn't make it good, it makes it barely tolerable. Idk if i can do it long term, imo.

[Jijifli]

You are right, I don't know these either. Which is exactly why I didn't make any argument using based on that. And that was my main point: I don't make baseless assumption to criticize something. I do with the information I know I have, and I don't extrapolate simply because hating every aspect of Eureka is the new trend.

Would you rather a world where we can't say anything negative about it if a company doesn't explain why content gets constantly delayed and then comes out poorly?

Part of the reason players are upset is because we had content cut from other sections over this. We're upset because not only did this get mentioned almost a year and a half ago, but it was meant to be in 4.15, then pushed to 4.2, then pushed to 4.25. We're upset because FFXIV's combat system is not a system for mindless grinding. Games that have you grind for levels are usually interesting in their combat system. Black Desert can make you feel like a massive powerhouse. Blade & Soul has a wonderful combat system that, when mastered, makes you feel like you can outsmart and outpower even the greatest of foes with your agility, combo's, etc. FFXIV can ride off of its enemy mechanics to make fights interesting.

If I honestly wanted to grind enemies, I already had the option. And if I wanted to follow a fate train, I could have done that with the fates in the game already. If I wanted to get gear that didn't matter, I'd do Alex, or Delta, or literally anything that's older content.

I challenge Square to come out and say why it's like this, why it took so long, and why their only given out fix is reducing sparkler drop rate at the end of the month. Then again they apparently didn't hear about Ungarmax for 5 months so to all I know they think we're complaining about how sparklers ruin immersion.

[Remedi]

The higher the average level of players becomes, the more they seem to tackle all fates, from level 10 up. For players 5-8. those fates are mostly dying a lot and doing zero damage, getting murdered on the way. Tanks can't tank, healers draw aggro and get one shot, dps do barely any damage. You essentially get carried if you are not the exact or within two of the level.

That's not just it, lv 1 players getting in now are a bit screwed since you can't party with if your level is high since they don't get any reward whatsoever

[Reynhart]

Part of the reason players are upset is because we had content cut from other sections over this.

I wonder...what content ? The only thing that Stormblood lack when compared to HW and ARR are a few expert dungeons, so something I suspect most people do only because they're doing their expert and actually don't really care what dungeon they end in.
And, more importantly, what content do you think we would have received if Eureka wasn't, that would have been so much better ?