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  1. #1
    Player
    Nedkel's Avatar
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    Dec 2017
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    2,023
    Character
    Chloe Lehideux
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 74
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidu View Post
    Basics?
    Yeah, sure.
    I dont recall which quest excatly it was but one of the very earlier gld-quests (level 15, maybe?) is a lesson on Flash - Hall of Novice is a thing. If I'm not mistaken, the game sends you there before you enter your first dungeon. You can skip it, but at that point it becomes your responsibility to make sure you know the basics of your job.
    Would you not expect that a healer at level 50 to have figured out how to heal you at that point?

    I'm always thinking about this with a solo-game in mind, asking the question: If you woudl ignore such basics in a solo-game - would you beat it?
    And what do you do when you cant beat a solo-game? You either quit, consulte a guide or sit down and review your skills again.
    The problem is that in an MMO 3 other people can indeed carry you through dungeons without your knowledge...
    Did the op said he didnt use flash, or the opposite side said he had a problem with keeping the aggro?
    No? So he did well enough for 2-3 weeks player.

    Its a dungeon with 90 minute mark, if you feel a tank not spamming aoe all the time makes it impossible to run, then there is something wrong with you as a dps, because your dps probably socks also if you progress so slowly.
    I doubt his party was any good as well, but it was easy for them to call him, instead of looking at themselves.
    As a tank myself i could easly tell which party i am playing with has a good dps or not, that factor makes up 80% of the party damage most of the time if the dps are at least decent, i could chill out and focus on keeping alive myself with big pull instead of doing most of the dmg. Things just evaporate so quick if the dps know what they are doing. If they struggle to run the dungeon i guess they were not good either, yet they fast to blame a PLD in tank stance for his poor dps, PATHETIC.
    Especially if you realize that PLD in dungeon on average is second lowest dps dealing class with giant gap comparing to dps (2-3 times higher), if that makes it so bad to run someone is complaining how long it takes, i have bad message for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fhaerron View Post
    Less then a week actually. That buff is too op tbh.
    It may be even like this, well at least for me it took about 2-3 weeks with wandering around, doing nothing and have not much time spare to play. :P
    (0)
    Last edited by Nedkel; 03-06-2018 at 11:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Vidu's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
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    3,993
    Character
    Vidu Moriquendi
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Nedkel View Post
    Did the op said he didnt use flash, or the opposite side said he had a problem with keeping the aggro?
    No? So he did well enough for 2-3 weeks player.

    Its a dungeon with 90 minute mark, if you feel a tank not spamming aoe all the time makes it impossible to run, then there is something wrong with you as a dps, because your dps probably socks also if you progress so slowly.
    I doubt his party was any good as well, but it was easy for them to call him, instead of looking at themselves.
    As a tank myself i could easly tell which party i am playing with has a good dps or not, that factor makes up 80% of the party damage most of the time if the dps are at least decent, i could chill out and focus on keeping alive myself instead of doing most of the dmg. If they struggle to run the dungeon i guess they were not good either, yet they fast to blame a PLD in tank stance for his poor dps, PATHETIC.
    The opposite side, in the "Tells from the Duy Finder"-thread stated that basically everyone was tanking.
    OP sadly never answered my question wether or not they used flash, so we're left with a bit of guesswork here - with the two best points being him saying that he was "using Shield Lob and that level 50 skill" and that "he was taking most of the damage". Both dont sound to re-asuring to me that he indeed used flash and was tanking properly. You cant really hold hate on a group of mobs, or on a single mob (...more likely though) by only throwing your shield at them - partly because you'll run out of TP to fast to keep that up.

    And who said anything about kicking him for "poor dps"? You're the first person to bring this up now - everyone so far has simply been stating that its a reasonable expectation of a level 50 tank - no matter if it took them a day, a week or a month to reach that level - to perform the basics of their job. Which is to hold aggro on all mobs.
    A tank doesnt has to "spam AoE all the time" - specially considering Flash deals no damage. A tank has to spam AoE enough to keep hate on all mobs. Or, in other words: A tank has to tank.

    Bit of a personal excuse here, that you can ignore if you wish:
    Paladin is actually my main-job. When I started this game I picked gladiator because, you know, I like swords. I had never played an MMO before. I had no idea what a tank was or what a tank has to do. Granted, I was lucky enough to have friends explaining some very basic stuff to me (even things like "Yes, you're allowed to roll on loot from chests. Specially when it is for your job!"). I certainly wasnt perfect - and I outright sucked at dodging. Back then the servers were still overseas and my lag was quite bad. On top of me being quite bad myself. I recall this incident in Brayflox Longstop NM. I couldnt dodge the dragon breath of the last boss. Just couldnt get out of it. The scholar couldnt heal through the poison - and you're not supposed to do that. We wiped a couple of times til they removed me, rightfully, from that party. Given my performance we couldnt kill that boss.
    Today its way, way easier to compensate for someones lack of skill or lack of trying or paying attention - and I'm not talking about dealt damage, I'm talking about dodging, tanking... heck, past level 58 my paladin can compensate the lack of a healer with Clemency - and I had to do that quite a few times already.
    But non of that is "right".
    Just because three other people can compensate for your lack of whatever doesnt mean thats okay.
    (8)

  3. #3
    Player
    ExKage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,171
    Character
    Heixin Xiaoshuita
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidu View Post
    OP sadly never answered my question wether or not they used flash
    He did, as I stated again just above.

    He said it here.
    Quote Originally Posted by xMysticx View Post
    shield lob and that one level 50 skill you get after doing all base game paladin quests, don't know the name of the skill at the moment, also flash as well.
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player
    Vidu's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
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    3,993
    Character
    Vidu Moriquendi
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ExKage View Post
    He did, as I stated again just above.

    He said it here.
    oooh, thank you - I must have missed that thanks to a late hour and a horrible headache. My bad, I'm sorry.

    Makes things potentailly a bit better on OPs side of things, specially considering that it means that they are able to use basic tank-actions (and granted, Tam Tara HM is a nasty dungeon to tank - all those stupid ghosts refusing to move) - still, not using their 1-2-3 combo leaves massive room for improvment...
    (4)

  5. #5
    Player
    Nedkel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    2,023
    Character
    Chloe Lehideux
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 74
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidu View Post
    The opposite side, in the "Tells from the Duy Finder"-thread stated that basically everyone was tanking.
    OP sadly never answered my question wether or not they used flash, so we're left with a bit of guesswork here - with the two best points being him saying that he was "using Shield Lob and that level 50 skill" and that "he was taking most of the damage". Both dont sound to re-asuring to me that he indeed used flash and was tanking properly. You cant really hold hate on a group of mobs, or on a single mob (...more likely though) by only throwing your shield at them - partly because you'll run out of TP to fast to keep that up.

    And who said anything about kicking him for "poor dps"? You're the first person to bring this up now - everyone so far has simply been stating that its a reasonable expectation of a level 50 tank - no matter if it took them a day, a week or a month to reach that level - to perform the basics of their job. Which is to hold aggro on all mobs.
    A tank doesnt has to "spam AoE all the time" - specially considering Flash deals no damage. A tank has to spam AoE enough to keep hate on all mobs. Or, in other words: A tank has to tank.

    Bit of a personal excuse here, that you can ignore if you wish:
    Paladin is actually my main-job. When I started this game I picked gladiator because, you know, I like swords. I had never played an MMO before. I had no idea what a tank was or what a tank has to do. Granted, I was lucky enough to have friends explaining some very basic stuff to me (even things like "Yes, you're allowed to roll on loot from chests. Specially when it is for your job!"). I certainly wasnt perfect - and I outright sucked at dodging. Back then the servers were still overseas and my lag was quite bad. On top of me being quite bad myself. I recall this incident in Brayflox Longstop NM. I couldnt dodge the dragon breath of the last boss. Just couldnt get out of it. The scholar couldnt heal through the poison - and you're not supposed to do that. We wiped a couple of times til they removed me, rightfully, from that party. Given my performance we couldnt kill that boss.
    Today its way, way easier to compensate for someones lack of skill or lack of trying or paying attention - and I'm not talking about dealt damage, I'm talking about dodging, tanking... heck, past level 58 my paladin can compensate the lack of a healer with Clemency - and I had to do that quite a few times already.
    But non of that is "right".t
    Just because three other people can compensate for your lack of whatever doesnt mean thats okay.
    We dont know exactly what happened here. Maybe he was pulling only 1 group and the others were tanking, because they were pulling it themselves.
    It happen to me several times, people pulled one or two groups on my face, because they want to force speed up the run.
    He made a good decision of not taking a hate from these mobs, and i believe they were dying in progress of doing so, making the run slower than it supposed to be.

    1 Flash and circle of scorn is more than enough to hold the mobs aggro before they die, and he said he used both of them, so problems with holding aggro should not be the case here, if anything its them pulling stuff on their own and you could say it by the kaldea post telling dungeons could be done without a tank, should we have any more questions here?
    I can bet a buck they were pulling on their own.
    We dont see any reasonable explanation of any of the sides, so both sides are guilty for that bad run.
    So far the only plea against OP is that he used shield lob all the time, so they complained about his performance, so about his dps, probably having less impact on the run than them messing up mechanics or typing the keyboard.
    (0)
    Last edited by Nedkel; 03-07-2018 at 01:38 AM.