Got kicked Right before boss.

[Neri]

Off topic Vidu, but why Shield "Loop" ?

[Vidu]

Off topic Vidu, but why Shield "Loop" ?

I'm german and I'm playing with a german client
Sometimes I write "by ear" - in this case, I've heard the name of the skill quite a lot of times, but never looked it up - my bad xD
I hope everyone can forgive me that I dont go back and correct every Loop to a Lob... I'll try to remember that one...

[IttyBitty]

"I'm new" only gets you so far as an excuse.

He was level 51, not level 15. Having absolutely zero idea as to how your class functions at its most basic level by that point is not acceptable, "new" or not. If he was dying to a mechanic he'd never encountered before, or was neglecting to use a combo chain he's not had access to since level 4 (Fast+Savage)/26 (Fast+Savage+Halone), then sure, "I'm new" would be an acceptable defence.

His reason for using shield lob was "it does good damage". Shield lob is 120 potency. You know what's more potency that that? Fast blade (160 pot). Even more than that? fast+savage (185/gcd averaged). That shows he didn't even look at his skills at all.

Advice was offered, he didn't listen to it. He was given an entire dungeon to show he had taken it on board. He did not. A kick being seen as a step too far after that is utterly laughable.

Expecting someone to know what their buttons do isn't entitlement. It's a basic fundamental requirement for playing the game and not wasting 3/7/23 other people's time. The fact anybody would defend not even mediocrity, but willful ignorance is mind boggling.

Now, the Scholar's actions were unacceptable, but that doesn't give OP a free pass.

[ChocoFeru]

Snip

I guess we have different points of view on some stuff. I'm usually more patient, for example if I'l playing SCH and the newbie tank has a had time to hold aggro, I would stop doing high DPS, and then I would give him some tips.

Same thing if I run as tank, I would stop going DPS stance and would pull slowly if the healer has a bad time healing me.


What it seems is that the DPSs and healer kept playing their jobs at full; DPS doing lots of damage, healer doing damage as well, and the newbie tank had problems holding aggro.

He didn't know how to hold aggro or do his basic rotation, yes, but I think the others didn't really help him on practice.
They kicked him right in front of the final boss, and I think that shows the DPS and healer true intentions. I mean, they cleared the boss without tank because they didn't need him, so the problem wasn't the tank himself, yet they kicked him.
They just wanted to prove how right they are and give him a lesson with a kick, "that'll show him, hah!".

All I see is entitlement on this specific case.


On other situations, if I ever kick a newbie it would be because he wouldn't listen or answer, but usually it's me who leaves if I see no feedback at all.

Also keep in mind that it was a random Dutyfinder dungeon, not a Party Finder dungeon. When you queue for it, you should expect stuff like that.

Am I too patient, maybe?

[Bellsong]

The PLD was ignoring advice and by the sounds of it being generally unreasonable, the kick should have happened earlier instead of right before the last boss, because that makes Kaldea look bad because it was a kick of spite and nothing more. Because mind you they did make it to the last boss and it's really so easy he could have held aggro with just shield lob anyways. Still bad, but possible.

Just makes it sound like Kaldea pushing of the "I want to coach you" idea is just them trying to not sound so bad cause they had initiated the kick even though the other players were being quite rude from the sounds of it.
Either way the PLD needs to get good and Kaldea need not kick before the last boss unless it is for spiteful reasons, and if it is just own it don't muck around trying to look like the better person just makes you look worse.

[Granyala]

This is untrue. You use shield lob to pull groups from range, at which the 2.5s will be filled with gap closing. If this is too much then CoS is a very valid part of your opener. Keeping hate while pulling with shield lob is not harmful in the slightest if you have a basic grasp of tank rotations

Sorry but I have seen WAAY too many tank lose aggro that way and then frantically collect the 2 mobs gnaw on DPS players.
I usually play as a WHM, so it's not me that is tanking or DPSing.

[Vidu]

Snip

We are indeed having different views here, maybe I can explain where mine comes from, specially in this case?

I'd like to refer to your line "They just wanted to prove how right they are and give him a lesson with a kick, "that'll show him, hah!"." here - and pointout two things:
1) It kinda worked, didnt it? The OP created this thread and will hopefully improve upon their tanking now to get it to a skill-level thats more reflecting of their character-level. Doesnt excuse any potential malicious behaviour, but
2) what would have been won by carrying OP through the last boss aswell? I'm saying this because a lot of responsed from the OP in this thread had the notion of "They wasted MY time" for me - instead of taking a step back and reflecting upon wether or not he might have "wasted" anyones time. My judgment might be wrong, but I got the impression that he would have just jumped straight back into the next dungeon, the next group - still being unable to perform, when it would have actually been needed that he takes a step back, looks at what hes doing as tank and compares that to what he should be doing.


Then... "it was a random Dutyfinder dungeon [...] When you queue for it, you should expect stuff like that."
No. This is were I'll strongly disagree with you, sorry.
Or rather: Sure, expect tanks not tanking, healers not healing and DPS staring at walls in a DF-run. But do not tolerate that. At a certain (level)-point that is something we should not have to expect and put up with anymore. At a certain level-point I should expect people to perform the basics of their job without being asked to do so. Level 50 dungeons seem well within that point for me (with a bit more leeway for RDM and SAM at level 50-54). No one should be learning the basics of their job or their basic 1-2-3 combo in a level 50 dungeon, sorry.
I'm not expecting perfect play in DF but I also shouldnt expect or put up with "garbage" (I want to make very, very clear that this is NOT directed at the OP at all, but meant as a general statment - I do not mean to insult anyone personal here, just to make this point).

So... if you ask me - yes, maybe you are to patient. And that can be a good thing for some newbies in DF! For those who are willing to listen, but I cant help thinking that if everyone always gets away with true subpar-play (again: not talking perfection; talking "failing to do the basics") it enables that play and makes them believe they're actually doing fine. "We cleared the dungeon, so whats the problem?" - when the problem was that one person was Shield Lob'ing/not Cure-ing/Ice-Only-Casting through the dungeon, making a clear only possible thanks to the other three people.
Maybe I'm to harsh, but I cant endorse (right word?) that.

[Granyala]

The entitlement...
It's so sad that people only focuses on OP's skill instead of the kick itself.

The kick was unnecessary. OP is a new player and we shouldn't expect perfect plays from new members

Again HE WAS 50. That is NOT a new player anymore (barring using the pot, which he didn't).

If we were talking sub 30 I would agree but at 50 we can expect some basic level of competence.
The community in this game is waaay too forgiving and patient with incompetent/lazy players, sadly, the devs encourage and design around incompetence, which is why 4 man dungeons get easier every patch. It is sad.

The most hilarious thing is: the kick was indeed unnecessary. If they managed to get to the end boss, they could have easily completed the dungeon. Lets face it, most mobs hit like wet noodles anyway. Oftentimes I don't even care whether I am healing a tank or a DPS.

[Vidu]

The most hilarious thing is: the kick was indeed unnecessary. If they managed to get to the end boss, they could have easily completed the dungeon. Lets face it, most mobs hit like wet noodles anyway. Oftentimes I don't even care whether I am healing a tank or a DPS.

This might sound a bit rude now, but: It would also have given some credit for something they didnt excatly "deserved" the credit for (assuming, Kaldeas report is correct in regards to aggro etc.) - yes, they could have probably kicked the OP sooner. There might have been other reasons for the bad timing beside spite. I'll admit that I kicked someone right before the last boss once or twice before - had no chance to do so before, thanks to loot. But even though we were somehow able to finish the dungeon, the person in question had made the run so unpleasent that the thought of them earning the fruits of our hard work wasnt sitting right with me. Call that petty, if you wish... or tell me that "Eye for an Eye" isnt a good approach. But doing nothing and just getting walked over isnt a decent solution in my book either.
Think of any other group-project done by 4 people. And one of them has no idea about the topic. Didnt read the texts they were supposed to read to prepare. When asked questions they dont bring anything to the table. The other three are picking up their work aswell - they kinda have to now, right? Lets say, its a school/uni-project and they're getting a group-grade for it - is it fair that the person who failed to deliver their part gets the same grade as the others?

Granted, this is "just a game" - but its a game for all of us and we all should consider how our actions influence the people around us, sharing this game.
That doesnt only go for veterans, who should obviously be nice to their fellow adventurers, specially the new ones.
It also goes for the new(-ish) person, who should try to play and improve as best as they can.

...maybe its me, but I dont understand how people fail to read their tooltips... seriously, how do those people play solo-games?! Guesswork? Whenever I get a skill or character in a solo-RPG I'll look at their description to get an idea what to do with them. I'm doing the same in this game, to make sure I'm giving my fellow teammates the curtsy of not subjecting them to my absolute clueless-ness when it comes to melee-dps, should I happen to play one after all.

[Fhaerron]

But you could get lvl 50 within 2 weeks of doing quests only with double bonus exp "road to 60" and sanctuary bonus (not sure do they stack).
Seriously, you expect these players to learn anything in that time? xD

Less then a week actually. That buff is too op tbh.