The general player base needs to improve

[RiyahArp]

For someone who spends so much time and energy disparaging raiders for their toxicity you sure are disgustingly rude and toxic yourself.

what is rude about it? He's saying its easy, while ignoring the fact that he has 50 more ilvls he did when it first came out, and that both MCH and BRD are jobs that can react to any movement mechanics with almost zero penalty. It's different if you are a BLM who is still getting used to his new toolset and doesn't know the exact safe spots to turret in to avoid moving. And keep in mind if your healers keep sliding off the edge or are too slow to react to mechanics, its a lot harder than if he is slow to do so, because he can be left on the floor with no real danger of a wipe. You think that might factor in for that, or is it just popular to dislike me?

[AxlStream]

what is rude about it? He's saying its easy, while ignoring the fact that he has 50 more ilvls he did when it first came out, and that both MCH and BRD are jobs that can react to any movement mechanics with almost zero penalty. And keep in mind if your healers keep sliding off the edge or are too slow to react to mechanics, its a lot harder than if he is slow to do so, because he can be left on the floor with no real danger of a wipe. You think that might factor in for that, or is it just popular to dislike me?

And if I would tell you I did it sub 290 as WAR when I was first leveling on the first week of SB release? Took only 4 pulls back then.

[Vahlnir]

what is rude about it? He's saying its easy, while ignoring the fact that he has 50 more ilvls he did when it first came out, and that both MCH and BRD are jobs that can react to any movement mechanics with almost zero penalty. And keep in mind if your healers keep sliding off the edge or are too slow to react to mechanics, its a lot harder than if he is slow to do so, because he can be left on the floor with no real danger of a wipe. You think that might factor in for that, or is it just popular to dislike me?

People cleared it just fine when it was fresh with a sub 290 item level...I was one of them. Took like, 3-4 pulls. Where do you think all these people in your experts/raids/Ex primals and such came from? They didn't just appear from thin air.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

This was actually 2 days after I cleared it, in Stormblood's first week, so I maybe had 1 or 2 i300 dungeon pieces.

Also you're not implying gear = skill, are you?

[Tridus]

I don't understand the argument that "Shinryu NM was harder than everything before so [random excuse]". People use it as a justification for numerous wipes or bad performance. If this was the case than how did people like myself, who had never done Extremes or Savages before Shinryu, clear him with no issue? Most of the mechanics he has are either a repeat of an old mechanic, or straightfoward. The only mechanic I ever had issue with was (and still is) Earth Breath, and only because I forget how large the cone AoE is.

Shinryu is an easy fight. All you have to do is play with some competence.

Some players are better than other players. That's how someone can go in and clear him with no issues while others struggle. For story level content, Shinryu was damn hard at launch. He hit hard, he had lots of things to keep track of, was not forgiving of mistakes, and most of the playerbase didn't know the fight. These days people largely do know the fight and there's no item level sync, so successful clear rates have gone up massively. That doesn't take away from the challenge at the time.

This is the problem with forum discussions on this stuff. The average forum goer is not the average player. Lots of players who have a significantly lower skill level and find this stuff difficult are barely represented here at all, while the high end skill level is vastly over represented. That skews things towards "everything is easy and everyone's bad!" when maybe the real answer is "it's not as easy as you think, and you're better than you think you are."

I mean, I went through two disbands before clearing Shinryu the first time, and *five* before clearing Susano Ex (which everyone around here also said was really easy), before the fights clicked and everything went swimmingly. While group quality is a factor, how fast I can learn the fight was also a factor, and that's slower than lots of other posters here. I don't tend to think I'm bad, but I do recognize lots of people I play with are better than me. But, having the perspective of repeated failure helps a lot, and if you go in and easily clear everything except Ultimate, it's easy to lose sight of all the people who aren't capable of that.

Comparatively, I was always good at Hashmal, which to this day is still wrecking lots of people. For me, it's a far easier fight than Susano is, but the collective playerbase death rate seems to suggest that isn't the case overall.

[RiyahArp]

This was actually 2 days after I cleared it, in Stormblood's first week, so I maybe had 1 or 2 i300 dungeon pieces.

Also you're not implying gear = skill, are you?

We all know gear trivializes content, especially if Ilvl isn't capped relatively low. Surviving the center aoe if you are in it, for example, or being able to last long enough with hellfire to be rescued. Shinryu was a healer's fight to win or lose, and if you had a smooth ride, chances are it was because your healers stayed up first, and your tanks second. If any of those four struggled, especially at min ilvl, it was wipe city, and for a while healers struggled till they learned the mechanics of the fight. DPS simply don't impact that fight past the add phase, and it takes 2 or 3 of them being down repeatedly to impact things.

Some players are better than other players. That's how someone can go in and clear him with no issues while others struggle. For story level content, Shinryu was damn hard at launch. He hit hard, he had lots of things to keep track of, was not forgiving of mistakes, and most of the playerbase didn't know the fight. These days people largely do know the fight and there's no item level sync, so successful clear rates have gone up massively. That doesn't take away from the challenge at the time.

This is the problem with forum discussions on this stuff. The average forum goer is not the average player. Lots of players who have a significantly lower skill level and find this stuff difficult are barely represented here at all, while the high end skill level is vastly over represented. That skews things towards "everything is easy and everyone's bad!" when maybe the real answer is "it's not as easy as you think, and you're better than you think you are."

I get too frustrated over this for my own good. I shouldn't, but it's exactly like you said; people vary in skill and ability. What I worry about is that the people who are good will shift the game like they did with HW again, which was a lot worse for medium to lower skilled people, and even high end people too.

[LandricFrey]

There is only one solution, just one:

Don't play with randoms.

Seriously, that's it.

People who don't care/take game as serious as you will not change because you say so. You're just wasting your own time here, OP.

[VanilleFang]

Some players are better than other players.

You're right. Maybe it's because I don't see myself as particularly good I just make assumptions based on my experiences.

I still don't see Shinryu NM as "hard". Teams disbanding or wiping is to be expecting, I suppose, but I just never understood how he could be labelled as hard. He doesn't have any new, deadly mechanics. He doesn't even have permadeath a la Titan or Ravana. For me, personally, I find most difficulty in this game comes from the people I'm teamed with. Then again I'm fairly casual so I haven't even touched Ultimate or Savage.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

There is only one solution, just one:

Don't play with randoms.

Seriously, that's it.

People who don't care/take game as serious as you will not change because you say so. You're just wasting your own time here, OP.

Okay, let's play that card. Do you know what that leads to?

People are forced to join FCs and linkshells or they're just left out in the cold. It becomes the haves and have nots. It creates an opportunity for exclusion. . . And let's turn it up now! Sure we've got cross server PF now, and that's great, but as you start spending more time running things with people you know (and perhaps might befriend), you'll eventually want to server transfer. . . Oh look! Now people are leaving X server for Y server because there's a higher percentage of clears or capable players on Y server, and none of the X server FCs/LSes are letting people in. . . OH LOOK! Y server's now locked, and X is a "preferred world". . .

As someone from Goblin, that is, if you were originally from Goblin before Stormblood, you should know how hard we got hit by things like this in the past.

[KaivaC]

There is only one solution, just one:

Don't play with randoms.

Seriously, that's it.

People who don't care/take game as serious as you will not change because you say so. You're just wasting your own time here, OP.

Am I really wasting my time here, though? Randoms will always be a factor because at some point, you're gonna play with them. Not to mention the many new players that come into the game with little to no guidance. Shall I stick solely to my discord pals and my FC, and avoid those new players as well - thus missing the chance to help them improve?