The general player base needs to improve

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Okay let's cut it with the PvP talks. Anyone that played PvP on other games will easely tell you XIV's PvP might be the worst on the market right now. No amount of time or playing it well makes it a good PvP experience.

Yeah, it's terrible now, but. . .

[Kazgrel]

WoW combat system/engine stuff

That's an engine/netcode level difference between the two games, though, and yes, even after having not played WoW for the better part of the past 4-5 years, I can still vividly remember how much more fluid the combat is there compared to this game. This game has improved on that aspect, though, but for players new here that have experience with WoW...it's a big change. What helped me is that going from caster there (ele shaman) to caster here (THM/BLM) was that I already had the preconceived notion I'd be casting slow but hitting hard. That doesn't apply to everything, though; going from something like a combat rogue or fury warrior to any of the starter melee here...yeouch.

[AxlStream]

Yeah, it's terrible now, but. . .

I get that it was better before. I played it before. But even if it was better, it's still was nowhere close to be considered good. Serviceable at best and even then, I am being generous.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Your mileage may vary.

[Fyce]

even if the chat was disabled they are very adamant to not show Damage debt or healed or any number in normal content, with pvp theres a different mentality, with what you suggested you could have people throw out names of someone who didn't know what to do and have them shunned from future parties, unless they could make it truly anonymous yet informative or similar to the record ready check, but again with that could cause players to abuse someone D:

We already have all the tools (would they be allowed by the ToS or not) to do everything you said:
- We can check people's performances live with third party softwares.
- We can check their history in great details on a third party website.
- We can kick pretty much anyone by simply calling the "differences in playstyle" excuse.
- We can remove anyone from a PF without any kind of justification.
- We have a tool showing every recent players we played with, which allows for easy black listing.
- We have Stone Sky Sea and Stormblood's equivalent that can be used without any kind of third party tools to roughly check someone's performances.

It'd be absurd to think that giving the players some metrics about a run they just did would open the floodgates for shunning and name shaming all over the place. It'd most likely not change anything, or at least it won't be worse that what we have now. If you do a random DF dungeon and get promped such a window, chances are people will forget about it a few seconds after closing it. Exacly like any Frontlines game.

Besides, the stance we're hearing from SE is mostly in regards to inbuilt DPS meters. Otherwise they wouldn't have given us these tables we see at the end of a PvP game to begin with. Also, I don't know why you think that showing someone's performances in PvP is different than doing it in PvE. You can do some shunning and name shaming regardless, which would also impact them in PvE.

Keep in mind that showing performances at the end of a run doesn't mean allowing witch hunting, name shaming and discrimination more than it currently is.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

He was complained about because he's miles harder than any story fight preceding him. Nidhogg had an add phase with 3 mobs, two stationary and one mobile with a very slow attack. Shin has 12 mobs interspersed with meteor drops that would kill you at i290 if you weren't exactly on the edge, as well as being surrounded by a pit. The chest beasting "it's not hard" crowd get annoying in this game.

If anything Shinryu hard is stupid because they set the bounds of what you can do in casual content too early. They legitimately can't make anything harder than him at recommended ilvl without starting to get into ex-level content. He kind of ruined Byakko hard because of this; he's actually much easier than Shin.

Sigh.

Maybe if the story prepared for the sudden spike—and they actually put ilvl restrictions on leveling content so people couldn't enter Shinryu in Shire gear—things wouldn't have been an issue. Granted, my only problems with Shinryu were the sheer amount of idiots who didn't care to respect his mechanics and kept rushing in, treating him like any other story mode content. It's almost like everything else lets them get away with that.

They could have easily kept Byakko around Shinryu's level, but this game has no concept of scaling difficulty. Hence why we see sudden spikes in random directions.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I think the last time I ever touched Shinryu normal, a friend asked me to help an FC mate get a clear. . .

I am, at this point, half-awake and thinking "eh, how does that fight even go again?" but I agreed to help.

Cleared, no wipes, I died once due to nearly dozing off again at the part the floor ices over. . . That fight was not hard if it can essentially be done blind and half-awake.

[rachcouture]

I think the last time I ever touched Shinryu normal, a friend asked me to help an FC mate get a clear. . .

I am, at this point, half-awake and thinking "eh, how does that fight even go again?" but I agreed to help.

Cleared, no wipes, I died once due to nearly dozing off again at the part the floor ices over. . . That fight was not hard if it can essentially be done blind and half-awake.

No, you just got in with the right party. A single MCH isn't going to make or break any trial.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Perhaps not, but I said that to point out that it was possible to do without knowing/remembering any mechanics prior, and not even being fully awake or aware.

It was a mashup of primal mechanics we've seen previously. Tell me how that's hard for anyone to deal with?

[Minako_Nightsong]

I don't think you know what atypical means >.>

Mo one is suggesting you need perfect rotations and melds, merely that you need to actually be doing something. I can't think of any normal mode trial where at least two players (as long as it isn't both tanks/healers) could sit down and not do anything that we still couldn't cleae through DF.

You are right, I used atypical wrong. I'll go edit that right now. MO one should ever make such mistakes. { I am just teasing. }

We agree that trying and having fun is perfectly fine for normal mode things then. I still feel a lot of the post in these threads do imply or outright state you do need strong skill in rotations and melds to be anything other than lazy or garbage at this game and I will not agree with that.