The general player base needs to improve

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Your mileage may vary.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I think the last time I ever touched Shinryu normal, a friend asked me to help an FC mate get a clear. . .

I am, at this point, half-awake and thinking "eh, how does that fight even go again?" but I agreed to help.

Cleared, no wipes, I died once due to nearly dozing off again at the part the floor ices over. . . That fight was not hard if it can essentially be done blind and half-awake.

[rachcouture]

I think the last time I ever touched Shinryu normal, a friend asked me to help an FC mate get a clear. . .

I am, at this point, half-awake and thinking "eh, how does that fight even go again?" but I agreed to help.

Cleared, no wipes, I died once due to nearly dozing off again at the part the floor ices over. . . That fight was not hard if it can essentially be done blind and half-awake.

No, you just got in with the right party. A single MCH isn't going to make or break any trial.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Perhaps not, but I said that to point out that it was possible to do without knowing/remembering any mechanics prior, and not even being fully awake or aware.

It was a mashup of primal mechanics we've seen previously. Tell me how that's hard for anyone to deal with?

[VanilleFang]

I don't understand the argument that "Shinryu NM was harder than everything before so [random excuse]". People use it as a justification for numerous wipes or bad performance. If this was the case than how did people like myself, who had never done Extremes or Savages before Shinryu, clear him with no issue? Most of the mechanics he has are either a repeat of an old mechanic, or straightfoward. The only mechanic I ever had issue with was (and still is) Earth Breath, and only because I forget how large the cone AoE is.

Shinryu is an easy fight. All you have to do is play with some competence.

[Sesera]

snip

Everything is easy and you can afk whenever you want and still succeed but only if the rest of the party know what to do and perform well.
Unless all your party was perfoming bad/average (eating mechanics...)and still win you can't say its easy just because you didn't have trouble.
A lot of people seem to forget something about mmo, you can play like a god and fail because the rest of the team is bad and play horrible and still win because the rest know what to do.
Shinryu with a bunch of first timer might be a bit troublesome.

[Tridus]

I don't understand the argument that "Shinryu NM was harder than everything before so [random excuse]". People use it as a justification for numerous wipes or bad performance. If this was the case than how did people like myself, who had never done Extremes or Savages before Shinryu, clear him with no issue? Most of the mechanics he has are either a repeat of an old mechanic, or straightfoward. The only mechanic I ever had issue with was (and still is) Earth Breath, and only because I forget how large the cone AoE is.

Shinryu is an easy fight. All you have to do is play with some competence.

Some players are better than other players. That's how someone can go in and clear him with no issues while others struggle. For story level content, Shinryu was damn hard at launch. He hit hard, he had lots of things to keep track of, was not forgiving of mistakes, and most of the playerbase didn't know the fight. These days people largely do know the fight and there's no item level sync, so successful clear rates have gone up massively. That doesn't take away from the challenge at the time.

This is the problem with forum discussions on this stuff. The average forum goer is not the average player. Lots of players who have a significantly lower skill level and find this stuff difficult are barely represented here at all, while the high end skill level is vastly over represented. That skews things towards "everything is easy and everyone's bad!" when maybe the real answer is "it's not as easy as you think, and you're better than you think you are."

I mean, I went through two disbands before clearing Shinryu the first time, and *five* before clearing Susano Ex (which everyone around here also said was really easy), before the fights clicked and everything went swimmingly. While group quality is a factor, how fast I can learn the fight was also a factor, and that's slower than lots of other posters here. I don't tend to think I'm bad, but I do recognize lots of people I play with are better than me. But, having the perspective of repeated failure helps a lot, and if you go in and easily clear everything except Ultimate, it's easy to lose sight of all the people who aren't capable of that.

Comparatively, I was always good at Hashmal, which to this day is still wrecking lots of people. For me, it's a far easier fight than Susano is, but the collective playerbase death rate seems to suggest that isn't the case overall.

[VanilleFang]

Some players are better than other players.

You're right. Maybe it's because I don't see myself as particularly good I just make assumptions based on my experiences.

I still don't see Shinryu NM as "hard". Teams disbanding or wiping is to be expecting, I suppose, but I just never understood how he could be labelled as hard. He doesn't have any new, deadly mechanics. He doesn't even have permadeath a la Titan or Ravana. For me, personally, I find most difficulty in this game comes from the people I'm teamed with. Then again I'm fairly casual so I haven't even touched Ultimate or Savage.

[Sekkei]

I've been half joking since Rabanastre's release that the raid is stuck in an eternal "week one". Almost every run sees a wipe on Mateus and/or Hashmal multiple times with an occasional Rofocale wipe due to several people standing on a circle and not clicking it. I'm honestly dreading the second installment in the raid series if it's still this bad. Also I don't know how it could get worse, but ever since the weekly gear lockout was lifted, the wipes, trolls, vote abandons, and verbal onslaught in chat has quadrupled. :\

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

This was actually 2 days after I cleared it, in Stormblood's first week, so I maybe had 1 or 2 i300 dungeon pieces.

Also you're not implying gear = skill, are you?