The general player base needs to improve

[Stanelis]

And how much of it have you played? How well did you play it?

Because some of us not only played a hell of a lot of it when it was better than it was now, we were good at it despite its imperfections. So my questions stand.

PVP in FFXIV has always been terrible though. Neither the servers, the game engine or the gameplay is suited for it. And it's not a matter of being good or bad at it.

[MoroMurasaki]

I disagree, the general player base does not need to improve. In my experience, roulettes, duty finder raids, dungeons, and trials have the right difficulty for the atypical player like myself. Perfect rotations and melds are not needed to finish these, just a willingness to try and also to have fun. While I read the horror stories on these forums about people pressing one button or doing other trolling things, it's a very small minority in my experience.


It will, of course, take more skill and dedication to do extreme and savage content and the game already provides ways for such people to organize these groups. You can be totally selective. If you choose to try this tougher content in party finder then you are taking a chance and if you get a slacker or a troll, it is not the fault of us atypical players and our lack of talent.

I don't think you know what atypical means >.>

Mo one is suggesting you need perfect rotations and melds, merely that you need to actually be doing something. I can't think of any normal mode trial where at least two players (as long as it isn't both tanks/healers) could sit down and not do anything that we still couldn't cleae through DF.

I had a MNK in Rab the other night who missed every fight. When he got called out he told us "does it matter?" and fed us some excuse about how his kid woke up unexpectedly. Well then drop! But the sad thing is it doesn't matter, our group was still more than capable of killing all our adds even with one DPS just literally not participating.

If no one had noticed that guy would have gotten his clear with literally no more effort than queueing and being willing to drag down his group... Why is that even possible?

Oh, right, because once you add in 3-4k of healer dps that doesn't even get factored into fights plus the fact that these "dps checks" are based around someone spamming one button apparently if you happen to have more than one competent DPS you're pretty much set.

[Fyce]

Click on the Duty's exit (or go into the menu and leave), and get prompted with something like this (obviously, you don't do Doma Castle with 8 people. It's a quick photoshop to get the point across):

If you are worried about "shaming", then disable chat when this window is open. Or simply prompt it during the black screen after the duty.

Would be a good start to provide people with a little tool to help them compare themselves with others.

[ToasterMan]

Agree with this too. I especially like the people defending PVP - guys... it just sucks in this game, c'mon - trying to PVP with that glacial GCD on unreliable servers? The world is awash with better options for you if you want to PVP - even WoW is better.

Remember when Yoshi said that he wanted PvP to be an esport? I mean, I think they did a good job with revamping the PvP for stormblood, but even then this games PvP can't really compare to pure PvP games.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

PVP in FFXIV has always been terrible though. Neither the servers, the game engine or the gameplay is suited for it. And it's not a matter of being good or bad at it.

You know, I've covered this one a lot in the PvP forums.

A lot of people that said it was bad largely never even tried it, rather they just accepted word of mouth about it. Sometimes that word of mouth came from someone who stepped in, performed poorly or was uncooperative with their team (the ol' "first strike", get-them-before-they-get-you defensive attitude) and had a bad experience for it. Some actually did try it and didn't like it, and that's fine. Fact is however, before 4.0, a LOT of people not only enjoyed it, they were good at it. It's popular thought that PvP was "dead" before Stormblood, but there was in fact, an active and competitive community; one that's been all but destroyed by SE's questionable attempts to "fix" and foolproof PvP.

It's also popular thought that the game engine/gameplay isn't suited for it, and that's just not true. It could be better, yes. Hell, it WAS better before Stormblood, but if it wasn't suited for it, they wouldn't have added it. It might come as a surprise, but some of the PvE skills considered useless in PvE were strong abilities in PvP. It doesn't help however, the general avoidance and misunderstanding, combined with overall lack of knowledge of PvP that makes the idea that "PvP in FFXIV was always bad" so popular.

Remember when Yoshi said that he wanted PvP to be an esport? I mean, I think they did a good job with revamping the PvP for stormblood, but even then this games PvP can't really compare to pure PvP games.

You might want to look again. I think it speaks in volumes when the players who were once dedicated to PvP when it was supposedly "bad" largely hate it enough to quit FFXIV entirely. SE ignoring issues with botting/exploiting for XP for half a year, kneejerk changes to a new mode that didn't fix the big problems and made things that worked NOT work, and the repeated, questionably poor changes made to the Feast in an attempt to "foolproof" it and make it an e-sport (while still not addressing the bigger issues like all the cheating and such) really paint a whole different picture.

[Ilyrian]

You know, I've covered this one a lot in the PvP forums.

I know. And you really do need to stop taking it so personally.
But I support you - if playing PVP in this game - with this system - rocks your world then more power to you. Genuinely - I hope it improves to your liking.
Personally I hate it - it is infuriatingly bad from the ground up. Don't get me wrong I love dressing up my kittyboi WHM and playing in Eorzea as much as the next dude in his mid-thirties BUT (and it's a big but) this cannot distract from the fact that playing any sort of PVP with that GCD is screen-punchingly infuriating to me.
I actually logged into WoW last night (first time in 7 months) to do a bit of housekeeping and played a couple of WSG matches and believe me it's like night and day. This isn't just personal preference talking - it's not about aesthetics, it's a genuine system that works as intended and a system that doesn't.
I would love PVP to work in this game - I really would as I miss being able to hop into it here and there - but freewheeling christ - that GCD is broken and not fit for purpose and the combat is not in any way suitable for it.

[DracotheDragon]

Click on the Duty's exit (or go into the menu and leave), and get prompted with something like this (obviously, you don't do Doma Castle with 8 people. It's a quick photoshop to get the point across):

If you are worried about "shaming", then disable chat when this window is open. Or simply prompt it during the black screen after the duty.

Would be a good start to provide people with a little tool to help them compare themselves with others.

even if the chat was disabled they are very adamant to not show Damage debt or healed or any number in normal content, with pvp theres a different mentality, with what you suggested you could have people throw out names of someone who didn't know what to do and have them shunned from future parties, unless they could make it truly anonymous yet informative or similar to the record ready check, but again with that could cause players to abuse someone D:

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

It's not personal, but imagine hearing the same misinformed stances on it for 4 years. It gets old.

There's also the bit where people consider the "new" PvP to be better, either without having experienced the "old", or buying into the same misconceptions about the old and using that as reason why the "new" is better. I mean, I never did Ultimate Coil; as such, I wouldn't consider myself qualified to speak in absolutes about it. That's not what you said or intended, and I see that, but I've seen far too many others do so, and again, it gets old.

Doesn't help that most of the experienced players either are forum banned, don't want to speak on the forums (generally for having been ignored for so long), or have literally just quit the game.

[rachcouture]

Where do you draw the line on improving, though? The definition of 'bad' is extremely subjective. I know I struggle hard with Rabanastre, but that's because it has some of the absolute worst, most deceiving visual queues in the game on top of stupid amounts of massive AoE spam leaving no room for mistakes. It's one of the few examples that I can think of where FFXIV tries way too hard to be difficult, missing the mark on a fair challenge completely. The player can't be blamed for that.

My concern is much more to do with other players being inconsiderate, i.e. DPS that refuse to stand next to their healers (SCH and AST have no AoE healing range whatsoever) or tanks that immediately go for stupid pull sizes without any regard to the rest of the party's gear or capability.

[AxlStream]

Okay let's cut it with the PvP talks. Anyone that played PvP on other games will easely tell you XIV's PvP might be the worst on the market right now. No amount of time or playing it well makes it a good PvP experience.