To everyone who says tanks shouldn't be able to meld Direct Hit

[Awha]

Yet, what amazes me is my WAR buddy has stacked his HQ crafted right and left set with a much Tenacity as the game would allow without losses has some of the best personal survivability of any tank I've ever seen. His personal healing skills are far more potent along with it bolsterimg his defenses and damage output.

So, it's very much the perfect stat booster for tank roles. He main tanks everything he can.

But only if you want to actually play like a tank and not a DPS with good defense like meta enforces.

So you want less people to play tanks? Gotcha. Since it seems as if you are not happy with the current DPS focused meta which is fair, I suspect though if SE forced a more defensive play style by the removal of stats many tanks would simply not play tank.

Though even if they remove DH which I think currently only PLD melds DH the other two meld crit if I am not mistaken, been out of the tanking loop. So not sure what the removal of DH would accomplish.

[Commander_Justitia]

I suspect though if SE forced a more defensive play style by the removal of stats many tanks would simply not play tank.

If you look at some statistics, tanks do about 80% of the damage a damage dealer deals. I really don't like that trend that you depend on healer and tank dps more and more to clear fights. Dps could have more damage for the loss of tank/healer damage...That are their "roles" after all...1 dead dps and then warrior will be over you in dps for the rest of the fight... We are getting close to the point where you can run with 7 warriors and be totally fine.

They could also change that all tank damages is derived from vitality instead of strength, while increasing the vitality damage modifier to compensate. Would stop excessive overmelding costs and substat question for rightside at least altogether.

[HoodRat]

If you look at some statistics, warrior (the tank with the highest damage) does about 80% of the damage of ninja (the dps with the lowest damage).

Fixed it for you.

[Bacent]

They could also change that all tank damages is derived from vitality instead of strength, while increasing the vitality damage modifier to compensate. Would stop excessive overmelding costs and substat question for rightside at least altogether.

They used to have Tank attack was based between vit and str stats, meaning any food that gave a vit bonus was powering tanks up a bit more than any other class was getting. They had to scrap the idea because of the increasing amount of vit on things was making tanks a bit too powerful quicker than they wanted from what I remember.

Also if it was based off of Vit instead of Str, my attack power would be going up by nearly 600. I have 2255 strength as a tank right now, but I also have 2847 vit as well. That's 592 points difference. If you 'increased the vit damage modifier', then that's even more attack power.

To go off of my FC leader's Dragoon str, she has 2672 Str, meaning my base attack power would be much higher than her's.

This is something really finicky to work with, and would take a lot of discussions between players and SE staff to find some kind of middle ground that more people are happy with.

[Commander_Justitia]

Also if it was based off of Vit instead of Str, my attack power would be going up

-> "while increasing the vitality damage modifier to compensate. "

The values can be changed they did it before, tank is the only class who profits with more vitality atm, it wouldn't affect any other class. Maybe you didnt get me right at first comment, I would delete strength for tanks and just let it be vitality and that's why I would increase it again to acceptable levels. I wouldn't increase it with strength scaling still intact xD


It's just the last tiers tanks always have to use crafting accessiorces with overmelds for BiS, its a bit unfair. And they would have prevented that thing that tanks run in dps accesoirces for the first raid tier in stormblood instead of adding extra strength on any new item now to make them more desirable. They didn't actually plan to have tanks with those extra stats, that's why I think tankdmg in general should be nerfed 10-20% while dps classes go up same values. But difficult to balance now such major changes, would be stuff for 5.0...

[Bacent]

-> "while increasing the vitality damage modifier to compensate. "

The values can be changed they did it before, tank is the only class who profits with more vitality atm, it wouldn't affect any other class. Maybe you didnt get me right at first comment, I would delete strength for tanks and just let it be vitality and that's why I would increase it again to acceptable levels. I wouldn't increase it with strength scaling still intact xD

No, I had you right, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I said the OLD system we had during 3.X was a mix of Str/Vit. Never did I say you were suggesting a mix of those. I gave my current Str and Vit values. There's almost 600 points difference. If you suddenly ignore str and go off of vit, and then increase the modifier, tanks would be doing MUCH more damage than they are right now, no matter if they had Direct Hit melded or whatever. My attack power would skyrocket to 2847 without that 'vit damage modifier' like you mentioned.

Also saying 'Tanks are the only class who profits off of vit' is a hugely false statement. Many DPS/Healers have vit melded for raiding because they need that extra HP to survive some of the multi raid wide hits back to back, and having those points increases the chance of you not being dead and doing zero DPS. You have 41000+ HP as your dragoon with your current gear, but not everyone has that much HP when they go to raid, so the vit melds help.

It's also only the OT who doesn't have their damage nerfed, since they don't have tank stance up. The MT will always be doing much less damage, and on occasion with the OT as well in the case of Sigmascape 3 Savage, since mini-bosses appear in it

[Commander_Justitia]

No, I had you right, I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

Sigh they switched tank stats so often that I mixed it up, still thought both stats count atm maybe because of warrior who benefits from higher HP for some skills idk. Still with that in mind you know why I wrote that no other class profits so much from vit than tanks, it was the damage factor, its obvious that you need vitality sometimes melded as damage dealer but no other class ever got it as an dmg increase. I am not sure why you had to understand that in such a general context when we are talking about something very specific here -_- My fisher profits from vitality too...

My point still stands though lol, they can use only 1 stat -> vitality to determine the dmg output/ attack power...It's not that difficult to find formulas that align very close to the existing ones, even if their are big gaps in the total stats you seem to worry about.
Another way would be that only vitality would be allowed for melding in the mainstat slot. Which tanks couldn't meld then at all because it's their primary mainstat on accessories. Which would be fine, because I don't think that tanks are happy with having to craft 4-5 pieces every raid tier and overmelding for the best set. Best item should be savage raids or upgraded tomestone item.

Fixed it for you.

If you look at some statistics, warrior (the tank with the highest damage) does about 80% of the damage of ninja (the dps with the lowest damage).

Okay... lets turn the numbers then, a very good warrior does around 75% of a very good Ninja, Bard, Redmage, Dragoon and Machinist dmg output.
->The potential difference between a good war(or war with slightly better gear) and a midcore damage dealer are very slim. Again... why play damage dealer then, a few more war's in a group means more mechanic cheese and less dying by 1 shot dd mechanics.

[Ametrine]

Again... why play damage dealer then, a few more war's in a group means more mechanic cheese and less dying by 1 shot dd mechanics.

Amusingly (or not), doing pre-made instances with just tanks, just healers, just RDM or SMN is a pretty common silly challenge players do often. Competent players can completely bypass the holy trinity system if they really want to, but these particular jobs have skills that allow for it.

RDM is powerful enough to do stuff like solo all 200 floors of PotD with an expert player behind it.... but it's simultaneously pushed out by meta once you hit farm.