Eureka: What we know and what we want to know

[Yasminou]

For everyone complaining that there's no new Artifact Gear, this is how Artifact Gear has been done since 2.0. You get the undyable set from the job quest and then turn in into the dyable set later (ALC items for 2.0, Centruio Seals in 3.0, Eureka in 4.0) and you don't get a new AF set until the next expansion.

What you cite for the 3.0 AF gear is true now but was not at release. We used to not receive any gear from the job quest and had to buy the undyeable base gear (i200) with capped tomestones before upgrading them to dyeable gear (i210).

The only thing we can say for the AF from ARR, HW and SB is that there is no rule:
- some can be stored in the armoire (i50/55);
- some are obtained from the job quests (i50/55 and i290 at release, i50/55, i90, i200, i290 now);
- some can be bought back from the calamity salvager (i50/55 and i290);
- some can be upgraded to dyeable ones (i50/55 to i50/55, i200 to i210 and soon i290 to ???).

[Bahati]

I suppose the fact SE has been working on this forever makes it especially disheartening it seems so much like Diadem with a few tweaks. This will be the third attempt at pushing this kind of content and I don't believe this version will so different and spectacular that it's not going to be dead within the month. All I can ask now is why? No one wanted this.

[RiyahArp]

we don't know till its actually released, judge it then. There's no point in worrying until we have it in game. Forums worried so much about so many things and its just wasted energy.

[SilverObi]

We knew relics were going to be some kind of grind as the last two were... What exactly were people expecting and what would be preferable to this new system? I personally have no problem with the idea of killing monsters for drops, a system that's in practically every RPG by the way, which is still the core idea in raids and primals.

[Zhamkyong]

we don't know till its actually released, judge it then. There's no point in worrying until we have it in game. Forums worried so much about so many things and its just wasted energy.

We knew relics were going to be some kind of grind as the last two were... What exactly were people expecting and what would be preferable to this new system? I personally have no problem with the idea of killing monsters for drops, a system that's in practically every RPG by the way, which is still the core idea in raids and primals.

^This.

Also i am still reading complaints about Fate and Hunts, but not a solution to the dilemma: What do you guys want instead?
The game is based on combat, with crafting and gathering among other choices. Eureka is going to be based as far as we know in combat with monsters of that place (We can assume also some gathering). What alternative there is to NM and Fates? if you have better ideas then share it for a change.

[Lord_Zlatan]

^This.

Also i am still reading complaints about Fate and Hunts, but not a solution to the dilemma: What do you guys want instead?
The game is based on combat, with crafting and gathering among other choices. Eureka is going to be based as far as we know in combat with monsters of that place (We can assume also some gathering). What alternative there is to NM and Fates? if you have better ideas then share it for a change.

There really isnt any. I think the problem that people have (I don't) is that with the last two relics its was easy fates. The ones in ARR, i mean... while it was pleasant to revisit old zones, the feeling for grandeur is lost when you are killing dodo's and mongrels for an epic weapon. I would like to see fates utilized (since thats what we are going to get, most likely) in a more (for lack of a better word) epic way.

[Darrcyphfeid]

When people compare fights to FATEs or hunts it's shorthand for "mindless zergfest with no mechanical significance whatsoever." Added bonus of FATEs and hunts both also working on an enmity system wherein you're rewarded more for having tanks sitting in defensive stance and healers intentionally overhealing.

If you can't think of alternatives to that, you're either not trying hard enough or are just being dismissive. Hell, Dynamis and Abyssea were constantly being brought up as points of reference for the last year and those have infinitely more depth than "play the game wrong"/FATEs/hunts both inside of the fights themselves and in their basic content structure. Diadem 2.0's Emergency Mission was a decent idea in concept, but utterly ruined by the execution of both the content itself and the fight's design (and infrequency). It's just not possible to coordinate 6+ full parties consisting of random people with the tools available to us in-game, and the fact that a single person could torpedo the entire thing was hilariously bad.

Both extremes are bad. And I look forward to people dragging nearby mobs into the NM cluster**** - intentionally or otherwise - and getting multiple people killed. So many attacks and abilities will have to be willfully withheld (WHM's Aero III/Assize, AST's Earthly Star, DRG's Geirskogul/Nastrond/Dragonfire Dive, etc) lest they risk getting themselves and other members of their party (see aforementioned overhealing) killed off.

[Lord_Zlatan]

snip .

This is another point about FATES that people dont like because it doesn't give you a sense of meaningful encounter. Its just and HP bar you are waiting to hit 0%.

A more dynamic system that could be implemented is not hard to think of, even if you want to still use FATES at the core of it.

[Darrcyphfeid]

This is another point about FATES that people dont like because it doesn't give you a sense of meaningful encounter. Its just and HP bar you are waiting to hit 0%.

Someone's going to try and come in here and whittle down stuff like Savage to fit this statement, watch. But this really is the problem.

The basic, core idea behind FATEs - essentially creating a "battle arena" circle that the monster can't be pulled away from or else it'll reset - is fine. At that point it's, and bear with me here because this entire post is inevitably going to be XI vs XIV (and that's Yoshi's damn fault for trying to shallowly appeal to people like me with this Eureka horse****), pretty much just an overworld BCNM. Except... I can't think of a single FATE that is more than "zerg until it's dead" and occasionally sidestep telegraph AoEs. The two most notable FATEs in my mind, barring the various non-combat things wherein you pick up items and turn them into NPCs (and those aren't good either!), would be The Eyes Have It in Coerthas Central Highlands and Special Tarasque Force in Dravanian Forelands.

The former is the only one I can think of off-hand in the entire game that includes a boss that kills without telegraphing (a staple for that enemy type that gets repeated very often), and the latter just spams the hell out of an enormous proximity-based AoE that can't be locked down due to the game-wide limitations placed upon stuns. But both of those FATEs, too, are still just a zerg - except you run a set distance away from the monster every so often and then return to beating its face in. Riveting.

If Yoshi wants to evoke nostalgia or emotions or whatever from XI, maybe he should first instruct his team to add some damn meat to the two systems they overuse at every conceivable opportunity. 'Cause god forbid we do anything but push maximum DPS at all times in absolutely everything ever:
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Weakness_Trigger
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/V...tch_Weaknesses

And god forbid we do some actual "hunting" in our hunts:
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/C...rious_Monsters

To say nothing of having something more in place than "oh, window's open, time to do [fishing/throwing away items/gathering/clearing specific FATE/etc] to maybe spawn a single NM (S Rank) once:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...ravnmv0975.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vWihfifjey...o-nu/a4sky.jpg
https://ffxi.gamerescape.com/w/image...eanmsystem.jpg

Which is not to say that XI was perfect, because it wasn't. Not in the least. But XIV's steadfast refusal to take things from XI, improve upon them and make them somewhat more accessible is offensive enough without them then trying to "cater" to the XI community - many of which hate this game's guts already, I need to add - with some piss poor design that also kicks their loyal XIV players in the crotch.

/rant

[SilverObi]

rant

Ya know, I like how you put all that. It sounds like Eureka will be somewhat of a throwback to XI's style and I'm happy for that. But without the same combat system or things like weakness triggers or item pops, it will be a shadow of itself but that's about all we can get in this game. I've been saying for a while there are so many things they could adapt to work in XIV's framework but seem so scared of alienating one portion of their audience or another. I'm still going to wait and see how Eureka performs before passing judgement (not that it will matter cause I need to get my relics and they know this), but as I think about it I wonder if they'll cave into the inevitable cries for restructuring.