I miss the old PvP.

[AchaNoYumi]

So just sit back, be thankful to SE that they enabled you to reach Top 100 with the gameplay and rating changes and stop your gibberish about a time where you would have been as close to a Top 100 spot as individuals are to buying a new large plot in 4.2 ;^)

Who t f are you???

Excuse me, first off Crit wasn't lucky to get Top 100, he earned that fair and square.

Second of all, your brain can't even comprehend the amount of experience Crit has in TEAM ORIENTED PVP. Not only does he scrim, but he was apart of Aether league. If anyone has a decent opinion on what ACTUALLY IS TEAM ORIENTED PLAY, It's Crit, not you.

Third of all. Please humour me and make a LP team on Primal so we can show you very easily what it means to have Team Based Skill. You have no idea. Mercy in less than 3 minutes, I promise.

Who are you again?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Second of all, your brain can't even comprehend the amount of experience Crit has in TEAM ORIENTED PVP. Not only does he scrim, but he was apart of Aether league. If anyone has a decent opinion on what ACTUALLY IS TEAM ORIENTED PLAY, It's Crit, not you.

Experience and opinions on team oriented play, and yet he admits to never having played any 3.x PvP. . . Fling insults and play the cheerleader if you want, but his credibility is pretty suspect from that alone, and his attitude is pretty poor at that.

I'm not gonna be the one to sit here and say he did or didn't reach top 100 legitimately, but I CAN say that, 1: Top 100 really isn't an accurate measure of a player's skill, and 2: Top 100 in 4.x PvP is even less an accurate measurement. Especially given the changes to scoring, rules and features of the mode, as well as the depth (or lack thereof) of the system.

[aeoncs]

Who t f are you???

Excuse me, first off Crit wasn't lucky to get Top 100, he earned that fair and square.

Second of all, your brain can't even comprehend the amount of experience Crit has in TEAM ORIENTED PVP. Not only does he scrim, but he was apart of Aether league. If anyone has a decent opinion on what ACTUALLY IS TEAM ORIENTED PLAY, It's Crit, not you.

I get sticking up for a friend, but that was kinda intense.

I didn't say he was lucky to get Top 100 or that he didn't earn it, I said that he did get Top 100 with a <50% winrate in 4.X, which is true. I also said that he's talking out of his a**, making ignorant assumptions about 3.X PvP with zero experience to back them up, which is also true. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, eh?

And WOW, he was a part of Aether league? You mean the one where you have to... exactly do what, to be able to participate? Oh right, you have to be alive. So unless his team won or made it to the finals, which could be true as I haven't really followed the most recent Aether Cup, that doesn't really mean anything.

Third of all. Please humour me and make a LP team on Primal so we can show you very easily what it means to have Team Based Skill. You have no idea. Mercy in less than 3 minutes, I promise.

Who are you again?

Yeah right, because I have nothing better to do than create a team on an NA Data Center to prove a point to a random.
"Mercy in less than 3 minutes" Did you seriously just use your FCs name as a punchline in an attempt to intimidate me?... I mean, just wow.
And I'm someone who probably only some players on Chaos still remember, seeing as I haven't actively (aside from 10 to 50 games per season) participated in Ranked Feast pretty much since Season 3; which is when the whole thing started going downhill.

[AchaNoYumi]

"Mercy in less than 3 minutes" Did you seriously just use your FCs name as a punchline in an attempt to intimidate me?... I mean, just wow.

I literally just lost braincells. Again, you're proving that you do not participate in true competitive PvP as it is known among all the real competitive players on each Data Center that the term "Mercy" means beating the team before the clock runs out. Hello?

Anyway, since the point is completely going over your head, I'll try to explain it to you, yet again, so maybe you and all the other Frontliners here thinking they know what they are talking about can truly understand.

YES. You are correct. 4.x is easier than 3.x PvP. Why? Because of less skills on the hotbars.
Because less skills are on the hotbar, pvp is easier.

Because PvP is easier, people have to become more aware than ever of what is about to happen, thus upping their ability to read situations, play even more coordinated with their team, evaluate the game that they are playing, etc.

CRIT IS RIGHT ABOUT THE ABILITY TO CARRY HARDER SOLO IN 3.X.
WHY?

Because you had more tools to work with!
4.x FORCES players to play better with their team due to the lack of kits to work their way out of whatever situation they are in.
Thus, Crit is right all along.


Like how is this so hard to understand?
It really isn't.

Think in terms of Competitive Pokemon Play.
Each Pokemon only has four moves.
If you're playing against someone who has just as much skill as you in Pokemon, then it becomes a mind game. You are forced to read your opponent. Once he exposes some of his team, you are forced to not only read your opponent, but the team he has. You are forced to evaluate and think "Hm, does his team counter mine? What do I need to do to beat his team? Do I need to play offensively or defensively with my full team?"

3.x has proven time and time again that this was not the priority because players were able to carry by themselves. Remember when WARs were extremely freaking OP and practically untouchable? That video Crit posted?
Both are fine examples of people being able to carry by themselves.

If the problem is that people don't understand how to cooperate with their team, thus cause a huge L everytime they play, then I understand how the deters a lot of people. The simple fact is the mentality has changed since 3.x because people aren't able to solo carry like they used to be able to. And you know what? That is fine.

Though classes aren't completely balanced in 4.x, I would argue that 4.x has done a better job balancing all the classes than 3.x, making it slightly more fair for not only vets but new players as well.


Edit;

And to everyone who is saying that there are people that are in the Top 100 who don't belong there. Hey, you know what, I agree. There are people that are there that don't belong there. However, with that being said, rarely will you ever see those people in the Top 50, heck even in the Top 60. Those people got carried by the very same people who understand how to work with their team so well that they made it to the top. It's funny, though, that I don't see a single one of you talking about "how x person didn't belong there" be in the Top 100.

I challenge you all to attempt Top 100. Attempt Top 100, play with the people who know what they are doing, and then come back here and discuss how team focused this game is now. At least in the Ranked aspect. The moment you hit High Gold/Plat, you'll start to see it. And once you hit Diamond, you'll understand it entirely. Until then, I feel like your arguments are just banter, because you have no evidence to back it up.

Does that mean your opinion is invalid? Of course not, that's a selfish thing to say. However, its better to have evidence backing up your statements than having only like 10 games played in ranked then coming to a final conclusion on how the game is on a true competitive level.

The things that are being argued here are not the things that should be argued about.

Edit 2;

My good friend also brought up a very good point that I'm going to copy and paste to this post:

Rei Reizei - Today at 10:51 AM
@Buff WAR just to add to the argument.
in 3.0 pvp you also were able to use your regular gear instead of what we have now. Critical hits were also a thing then as well
so certain jobs that focused on crit builds were able to solo if you knew how to play
for example MCH, monk
monk especially since Fist of Fire and Fist of earth were broken
White Mage also had the ability to carry games due to Sleep CC
now since everyone are on an even playing field skill and stat wise
its harder to solo and carry your way through just by mashing buttons
control over the adren box garenteed victory if you knew how to utilize your LB
especially when it was just one box
just control that one box and you win
also what people dont realize is
crit didnt just get top 100 on one chara
he got it on multiple characters in the season

This statement is coming from a S1 vet who has hit Top 100 every season so far.

[Commander_Justitia]

If you're playing against someone who has just as much skill as you in Pokemon, then it becomes a mind game. You are forced to read your opponent. Once he exposes some of his team, you are forced to not only read your opponent, but the team he has. You are forced to evaluate and think "Hm, does his team counter mine? What do I need to do to beat his team? Do I need to play offensively or defensively with my full team?"

You know I could play chess too, way more strategy and way more mindgames, but it would also be pretty boring because we are here to play videogames. lol
Now what SE does, is looking at chess and removes every figure but the king and you are defending that decision and call it a superior game. And why does "carry the team" need to be difficult for good pvp? It's not an argument against or for it, a game can have either option and still be good and fun.

[AchaNoYumi]

You know I could play chess too, way more strategy and way more mindgames, but it would also be pretty boring because we are here to play videogames. lol
Now what SE does, is looking at chess and removes every figure but the king and you are defending that decision and call it a superior game. And why does "carry the team" need to be difficult for good pvp? It's not an argument against or for it, a game can have either option and still be good and fun.

So why are you even arguing? The point Crit was making was that 3.x PvP had the ability to carry Solo while 4.x PvP is focused on coordinating with the team. I don't understand?

[Mofafafa]

reee

https://imgur.com/a/Ov553

Season 5. only reach silver at season 6 because i want the title.
Hi, sir top 100.
PS: I was never interested in top 100 reward so i never go for it, also, I was trolling whenever i reach diamond promotion, so i just playing all sorts of role and class, healer/dps/tank, if on doubt, ask any Elemental PvP guy, they see me, if you can.


1) Dimishing Return, a mechanics that allow the target to have immunity after 3 attemp from a CC such as (sleep, stun, slow, bind, heavy) in which they are halved for every attempt by 50% from the duration each time. I use this knowledge and communicated with my team when in coordinating and inform them which target have immunity and tell them the time that their immunity will be removed after 1 minute passed from the last attempt.

2) Skill, which is more related to psychological or reflex toward players ingame, pre-stormblood have more reflex / psychological gameplay with PvP skills or any other skill such as "Blood for Blood / fetter / full swing / etc" that requires the reflexes or psychology play of the player to quickly react towards the certain play.

3) Thinking, just think about current 9 button smash gameplay compared to before.

4) Mechanics, similar to above statement but we had more tools to utilize with and coordinate with party. Positional / basically PvE rotation / perfect application of CC chain / etc *not to mention *purify* which the party member uses on other party member*

5) Memorizing, remembering your own party member or opponent skills used such as Barrage ( 90s cooldown ), Benediction ( 3 minutes ), Hallowed Ground ( basically 1 use per match unless it goes overtime ), purify/attunement cooldown, etc

6) awareness, yea.. no.. whatever its almost the same anyway *purify on team member if you notice* etc

7) lol i dont even know what am i typing anymore after these final exam

8) positioning, omg dont tell me you dont understand this. People complaint about getting mass cometeor, not knowing how to position themselves by spreading. In JP server, a misuses of mass cometeor will lead to disadvantage as opponent will pressure you with their very own mass cometeor. Feast, yea.. many people do not understand this concept including some of the top 100


quoting my old post statement here, too lazy to edit.

[AchaNoYumi]

https://imgur.com/a/Ov553

Healer isn't really underwhelming in 3.0 and not really Overpowered if you actually have a skilled teammate in your party. A coordinated burst is what we need, and awareness for purify in 3.0 chain cc, and psychological play for all your healer camping needs
I always queue with my JP mates for Rival Wings we just always end up with cumulative above 50+ kills from only our party even though opponent is filled with healers.

and for the Machinist wildfire on Heavensward, have you actually practices MCH in PvE? completing your PvE rotation in wildfire duration with the extra sprinkle from Between the EYE, wildfire could still do serious amount of damage

Your post is valid as it makes sense. I'm more directing these to these other people.
Also MCH is OP at the moment lol. That PvE rotation is basically all you need to do in PvP ATM to get the big dmgs off unless enemy Healer knows what Wildfire is and puts Protect/Beni/whatever unga shield up at the end of a countdown.

[aeoncs]

I literally just lost braincells. Again, you're proving that you do not participate in true competitive PvP as it is known among all the real competitive players on each Data Center that the term "Mercy" means beating the team before the clock runs out. Hello?

Sorry for not recognizing that entirely made-up term that I've never heard of in all my years of competitive PvP - be it WoW, LoL, BDO or BnS. Are you trolling? Also, that you seem to think that any part of FFXIVs PvP is truly competitive is lol-worthy in and of itself.

As to the rest of your post, what you, and Crit also, don't seem to realize is that no one is saying that working as a team is unimportant or even less important now than it was in 3.X - Crit was the one who came in here, with literally zero 3.X experience, making assumptions about things he's entirely ignorant about. I've played with and against several Top 10 players during season 2-4 and saying that teamwork didn't matter is complete BS. If a team worked really well together in 3.X it was an absolute stomp when they faced off against a team full of solo-oriented players.
You had to be aware of your teams cooldowns, coordinate CC, burst and defensive play in a way that simply isn't possible now. So let me put it like this: In low and even mid ranked solo queue teamwork is definitely much more important now than it was back then. In higher rankings, and especially Light Party, it's the other way around. You had so much more options to coordinate as a team back then, it's not even funny.

And to everyone who is saying that there are people that are in the Top 100 who don't belong there. Hey, you know what, I agree. There are people that are there that don't belong there. However, with that being said, rarely will you ever see those people in the Top 50, heck even in the Top 60. Those people got carried by the very same people who understand how to work with their team so well that they made it to the top. It's funny, though, that I don't see a single one of you talking about "how x person didn't belong there" be in the Top 100.

I challenge you all to attempt Top 100.

Season 2. 4th highest winrate in the entire DC with barely any games played. And you just made me check, in Season 4 I reached Diamond with less than 150 games played and a winrate of 74%. Tbh, I never had the time and incentive trying for Top 10 but in S4 I stopped playing halfway through at rank 30~, since I didn't really care for the mount, and then ultimately dropped out of the Top 100 during Black Week. I didn't even want to mention that as it has no place in a proper discussion, it's like immediately playing the fflogs card in a PvE discussion, but you tried to call me out on it, so yeah.