The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[KaivaC]

snip

Alright...now that I finally got a chance to read the whole thing...

Basically, your whole post could be easily summed up as, "I want to stay average and not have to earn my clear/loot because we, the Averagers, do not appreciate that we can't spend the entirety of a 90 minute instance whittling a boss' HP down because we will not try to optimize our job skill sets at the same time as passing every mechanic. We, the Averagers, feel that healers should do their one job and keep us healed and alive and not worry about DPS, that way we can kill our bosses through attrition. Then Lucky Bancho and show the world that clear rates are sky high.

Also, something something and something else in bold. Like this."

[HoodRat]

Alright...now that I finally got a chance to read the whole thing...

Basically, your whole post could be easily summed up as, "I want to stay average and not have to earn my clear/loot because we, the Averagers, do not appreciate that we can't spend the entirety of a 90 minute instance whittling a boss' HP down because we will not try to optimize our job skill sets at the same time as passing every mechanic. We, the Averagers, feel that healers should do their one job and keep us healed and alive and not worry about DPS, that way we can kill our bosses through attrition. Then Lucky Bancho and show the world that clear rates are sky high.

Also, something something and something else in bold. Like this."

You forgot the part about italics.

[KarstenS]

Why do we even have them any more?

So how you would check the level of player skill for class competency?

The content is not just about "be at the right level" or "have enough gear".

Its also "be competent enough to master the battle design" and "be competent enough to play your class well enough". The higher the content, the more you need to be able to be good in both at the same time.

With your suggestion you could win the fight by just hitting one single button for damage.

There would be no reason to bring DPS classes at all into a battle, except for speed runs. Damage rotations and stat weights would also be completely useless.

[Alleo]

I am sorry OP but enrage timers should stay. Dungeons are already way too easy even if we dont outgear them. Taking away the only thing that could possible stop a group would make the skill gap even bigger. Yes its annoying if you have to put out even more DPS, if the others are not doing their part but at least this might give some people a wake up call and maybe question if they need to improve.

I am not saying that the enrage timer should be harder but without that, what will be there to stop people from just brain afking through the stuff? Should they just throw a huge amount of one-kill mechanics on bosses to make them more difficult that way? Which would mean that everyone with a bit of laggs or bad connection will have huge problems. No let it stay that way.

And sorry to say, but savage is the hardest content in the game..if your group cant beat the enrage timer than you are just simply not good enough for it. I am not doing savage because that is just too stressfull for me..but I also dont go to the forums and hope that SE makes it so easy that I can do that too. No if I want to beat it I would have to put the work behind that too.

[Bobs]

So how you would check the level of player skill for class competency?

I herd talk about bringing Kirin back like in ff11. I will be really sad if its just a 10 min rage instants.

The whole fun of Sky in ff11 was that is was an open world experience with smaller notorious monsters dropping items that eventually lead to larger ones. To get a Kirin set of items it would take a few days. Even then it might be an event that only happened once of twice a month if you have an active group doing it. It was a true end game.

FF14 end game is, log in, join a group in PF, kill something a few times, log out. All in a span of an hour or less.

I really hope Kirin is not downgraded to a 10min rage boss fight. It would be messing with my childhood memories.

[RiyahArp]

Well, the way the game is set up they need enrage, but it's not a particularly fun mechanic as it is. I wonder sometimes if it wouldn't be better just to have the boss wipe everyone after so many deaths, since repeated deaths are the biggest component, and then have multipel dps checks through the fight. The enrage can make it that you can't recover from a fight, despite overcoming a flurry of deaths.

[Paladinleeds]

Well, the way the game is set up they need enrage, but it's not a particularly fun mechanic as it is. I wonder sometimes if it wouldn't be better just to have the boss wipe everyone after so many deaths, since repeated deaths are the biggest component, and then have multipel dps checks through the fight. The enrage can make it that you can't recover from a fight, despite overcoming a flurry of deaths.

Coil T12 had something like that in a soft enrage mechanic. For phase 2, for every person who died, he gained a stack that increased his damage output. Too many deaths and he gained too much damage output, and you were basically boned. Mayhap they could bring that mechanic back instead of hard enrages all over the shop?

[KaivaC]

Coil T12 had something like that in a soft enrage mechanic. For phase 2, for every person who died, he gained a stack that increased his damage output. Too many deaths and he gained too much damage output, and you were basically boned. Mayhap they could bring that mechanic back instead of hard enrages all over the shop?

I personally wouldn't mind seeing a level of mechanics that are equal to T9. T9 unsynced is still a bigger challenge for some players than Susano Ex. Maybe that fight could be mostly a soft enrage, where if you take too long, it will become impossible to pass a mechanic.

[Baalfrog]

Coil T12 had something like that in a soft enrage mechanic. For phase 2, for every person who died, he gained a stack that increased his damage output. Too many deaths and he gained too much damage output, and you were basically boned. Mayhap they could bring that mechanic back instead of hard enrages all over the shop?

Do you know the difference between hard and soft enrage? A hard enrage is when boss just kills you after x amount of time and a soft enrage just means bosses abilities will eventually wipe the team if you play bad. Current tier doesn't have soft enrages, but last tier did, in Cruise chaser savage with pillars and stuff. It doesn't honestly matter if you do soft or hard enrages, people demanding to be allowed to do barely minimal effort or less cause its "fun for them" (screw the others though, their fun is the one that matters most in a team game, yea) or don't pay my sub or whatever will always find something to complain about difficulties of fights. Like Shinryu or Nidhogg normal mode or that solo instance with Lakhsmi in 4.1 was also too hard.

Enrage has always been a cheap thing to do. It's not bad for some fights, but they abuse the hell out of it in their designs. They should just stick to most fights having a DPS check in the fight like meteors on neo instead of every fight being a DPS check to prevent a hard enrage.

There have multiple similar things in the thread, and I don't believe anyone has said anything about this. But basically it boils down to remove dps check that wipes the team in the end for lack of dps, and replace it with dps check that wipes the team. If these new "dps checks" wouldn't kill you for failing them, then you wouldn't even need to do them, justheal through and ignore, which would make them a non-dps check. If they were to do that, then these dps checks would be significantly harder and people wouldn't be able to limp through them, and the clear rates would be just the same as they currently are, and then people would rally at the forums, asking for meteor nerfs instead.

As a compromise, they could have it so that if you don't beat it by the official original enrage time, you loose a chest, after a bit more time, the next chest goes and so does any titles / rewards. You got a clear but you got just that a clear only, no rewards or anything else. It has a similar effect as an enrage, punish poor performance but it would allow people to just get through it. It would also make for some very interesting specialty runs where people try to do the encounter with the fewest people possible.

But if we do want to keep the enrage timers and address the people who say "well why didn't the boss attack us like this in the beginning", just make up some lore like the boss is powering up or the ceiling will fall or some other deus ex machina reason.

Anyhow... I'm fine with the current system, it works. Yes it sucks that you get 1% wipes but the victory feels all the better when you do clear it. If we did away with enrages we would loose the nerd screams when clears do happen and who doesn't love a good nerd scream?

So essentially clear but don't clear because the clear is made worthless ?

not always something you can correct yourself if your not the one making the mistakes. and sometimes its not even mistakes it's just people being a bit more cautious with mechanics.

I generally play with friends so i'm not the guy that's gonna boot one of them out because them out because they are able to mechanics perfectly just not fall a fraction short on dps... and generally when you see wipes at 2-3% despite the fact you've survived everything to that point. it's infuriating and generally puts players off wanting to try again....

if they scrapped enrages but had more dps checks the overall difficulty of content wouldn't change that much but it would just get rid of those wipes that screw you over when you've actually done nothing wrong...

See now, thats hte problem, if you meet the enrage, either you or someone in your raidgroup DID something wrong, its not like the enrage timers are 2 minutes to get to neo or wipe, its a decently tight one, but nothing that a group of dedicated people can't do. If you give up instantly you see 2 to 3% enrage, maybe it just isn't the content for you?

It's an ongoing theme. The game had gone so heavily into DPS that Tanks and Healers are now criticized for not doing enough DPS. There have been threads on that subject and I fell this falls into the same root cause.

Can we just take a step back for a second. A Tank and a Healer who already has a full time job of tanking or healing is being criticized for not doing enough DPS.

The game is going into an odd direction.

Maybe it's just the old mmo player in me but "End Game" should take more than 10min. It makes it feel more like a side project. I'm hoping that new Relic gear when ever it comes out actually takes time to complete. Really not into the idea of microwave mmo experience.

Full time job? Please, if it was a full time job, then you would HAVE TO heal 100% of the time or people would die, or you would HAVE TO mitigate 100% of the time (also not possible mind you, but you would need to if it were). The amount of healer/tank specific things (healing and mitigation) you need to do is like 30 to 50 or 60% of the instance (depending on the instance, anything from dungeons to raids) and rest is just downtime. What do you do then? Stand around? Heal (or rather, overheal cause no one is taking any damage)? Mitigate (which is again not possible 100% of the time anyway, so essentially stand around)? Or contribute to the group performance and do some DPS?

Also, endgame does take more than 10 minutes, but if you only do Rabanastre once a week and omega normal mode and dungeons you are missing a big chunk of it, which is the stuff that does take more than 10 minutes to clear.

[Lambdafish]

This is some next level salt over the WAR changes OP