Red Mage could use some help.

[Neela]

"That's just how it is" is a really poor argument for relegating a class to progression every patch.

at least RDMs place seems to have a defined spot and identity... u can't say that about current smn/blm state – which are more a dev-toy to play "how can we fuck up caster cls this time?" ^^'

[PrismaticDaybreak]

at least RDMs place seems to have a defined spot and identity... u can't say that about current smn/blm state – which are more a dev-toy to play "how can we fuck up caster cls this time?" ^^'

A poorly defined spot isn't much worth it. Neither is the identity of 'progression babysitter' particularly enjoyable. I didn't say SMN or BLM didn't have issues, frankly all casters have issues. We need to stop the pointless 'who has it better of the people who have it the worst' game and start focusing more on how we can get the devs attention better. Although a 100+ page thread apparently wasn't enough for them to think BLM needed more significant buffs.

[Neela]

they are actually totally lost in caster syngergy/balancing for sure... Blm is totally out of order while current smn is for farm and rdm for progression - im not sure how they can ever balance them off in an equal way. I liked the early HW while they seperate Blm & Smn in ST & AOE "kings" - running dngs and/or 24 raids with both of them in one grp was just awesome and fun. with rdm as support/progress-dps cls there is a 3rd spot to line up strict identitys for all 3 of them....

...but instead the only thing which seems clear in the current state is an untouched Rdm for prog & solo content... facing 2 mates who totally lost anything they stand for in the chaos of adjusting/balancing....

[snipski]

RDM is fine it's super easy to learn and play good.
Ranged classes is also easier doing mechanics on compared to say a melee dps.
This game doesnt even have hard dps anymore like gordias did.
You can pretty much save the healers from ever having to ress with a rdm in the grp.
Embolden could be buffed abit i guess thats it.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

RDM is fine it's super easy to learn and play good.
Ranged classes is also easier doing mechanics on compared to say a melee dps.
This game doesnt even have hard dps anymore like gordias did.
You can pretty much save the healers from ever having to ress with a rdm in the grp.
Embolden could be buffed abit i guess thats it.

Alright I'll cover the bullet points for you.

1. Ease of gameplay shouldn't and for the most part doesn't affect balancing a job. (Said before by Yoshi-P in a producer live letter) RDM isn't fine, it has less damage, rDPS, and utility than Bard.
2. Flatly untrue, if anything melee/ranged physical have the easiest time dealing with mechanics as they don't have cast times aside from SAM's Iaijustsu not to mention there are specific mechanics that target ranged players.
3. Fair.
4. And that's only the case if your group has 4+ deaths per minute which gimps the RDMs damage for the rest of the fight.
5. Embolden does need to be buffed, the damage restriction needs to be removed and the actual numbers should be improved.


After that, RDM needs a personal damage buff as it has less raid DPS contribution than bard and lower personal damage while Bard has solid offensive and defensive utility, it needs Verraise to have modest cooldown (15-30 seconds) so we can stop being balanced around a stupid niche use.

they are actually totally lost in caster syngergy/balancing for sure... Blm is totally out of order while current smn is for farm and rdm for progression - im not sure how they can ever balance them off in an equal way. I liked the early HW while they seperate Blm & Smn in ST & AOE "kings" - running dngs and/or 24 raids with both of them in one grp was just awesome and fun. with rdm as support/progress-dps cls there is a 3rd spot to line up strict identitys for all 3 of them....

...but instead the only thing which seems clear in the current state is an untouched Rdm for prog & solo content... facing 2 mates who totally lost anything they stand for in the chaos of adjusting/balancing....

Those are all really meh identities to base a class off of, each one should be decent for each of those categories with maybe a slight advantage to each one. Each one should be competitive in any end game content. And tbh dungeons and 24 man raids are trivial enough I'd really rather they not take balancing inspiration from either of those.

[Neela]

Those are all really meh identities to base a class off of, each one should be decent for each of those categories with maybe a slight advantage to each one. Each one should be competitive in any end game content. And tbh dungeons and 24 man raids are trivial enough I'd really rather they not take balancing inspiration from either of those.

sad to to read another "raid only" opinion again... cls design is NOT only about endgame I wonder why people think their demands for endgame is the non-plus ultra and the only thing what matters... if you take in consideration that just 10% of the com is activ in any kind of forum and half of these 10% are endgame/hardcore raider - the majority of the com isn't kinda elite. Jobs also have to be enjoyable in pve, 24 raids and dng runs - cause this is what most of the com do most of the time. That being said single target, aoe and support are 3 different routes which can clearly make a point.

And to be fair each one is competitive in endgame, its just one is more powerful and stays in the spotlight (lets see how it change with the patch) more than the other ones - but both of the other once can do every content as well - its just not that easy. So how would you balance the 3 of them without making them all the same in mechanic and feel? im really curious bout your idea... ^^

[PrismaticDaybreak]

sad to to read another "raid only" opinion again... cls design is NOT only about endgame I wonder why people think their demands for endgames is the non-plus ultra and the only thing what matters... if you take in consideration that just 10% of the com is aktiv in any kind of forum and half of these 10% are endgame/hardcore raider - the majority of the com isn't kinda elite. Jobs also have to be enjoyable in pve, 24 raids and dng runs - cause this is what most of the com do most of the time. That being said single target, aoe and support are 3 different routes which can clearly make a point.

And to be fair each one is competitive in endgame, its just one is more powerful and stays in the spotlight (lets see how it change with the patch) more than the other ones - but both of the other once can do every content as well - its just not that easy. So how would you balance the 3 of them without making them all the same in mechanic and feel? im really curious bout your idea... ^^

End game raiding is the only part where intricate class balance actually matters. No, the only caster that was remotely competitive among all classes which is more important than this caster war you keep wanting to continue was SMN and only because their damage was overtuned enough to make the DRG+BRD+MCH synergy less important. Casters need to be competitive among the other classes. Instead we have our 'support' caster which has weaker support, damage, and mobility than both of the ranged physical DPS classes. A 'no utility high damage' caster that gets outclassed by the fact that its damage isn't sufficient enough to break the previously mentioned meta and a 'mild utility, mild damage' caster that again, has only broken the current end game meta because its damage was overtuned. I'm not saying the other content doesn't matter at all, it's just that it's not as relevant as far as balancing is concerned because the other content isn't rigorous enough for parties to justify not taking specific jobs.

As far as ST, AoE, and support, each class needs to have a use in each category or they have to excel only at that category enough to make a difference. Now take into account that all raid encounters are single target and the AoE job is no longer usable there because why bother. The support and ST class now have to vie for a spot in which either the support has to have enough useful support to make up for the fact that its ST dps is going to be lower. There should be a justifiable reason to take any job to end game raids at any point along progression. And for the most part if a job is performing well in the most serious end game content it will perform well in the less taxing content.

Basically the only reason you would take any caster at this point is because they have Raise, one of which has a disproportionate amount of access to it and one that has the same as healers do, now throw in the fact that one does significantly more damage than the other and gets gimped far less for using it. And then Black Mage doesn't have Raise and not enough DPS to justify its stark lack of utility.

[Neela]

End game raiding is the only part where intricate class balance actually matters.

well than... i feel sorry for you – but to cut it off: RDM most probably will always stay in the supporter/progression role no matter how much the com will cry. They won't be dumb enough to cause the current situation a 2nd time, trying to pimp them along with both of the other burst-caster. Why should they make it even more complicated than it is with 2 aggressive once - I highly doubt they will, progression-dps is a clear set position RDM fills in a very well way nobody can question this fact. ^^'

[PrismaticDaybreak]

well than go ahead crying...

Hardly a surprising response from some casual EU player who can barely articulate their thoughts and whose response to balance concerns is, "Go find a different party lol"

Good job editing your post not to sound like an arse.

Yet somehow they were able to balance 3 melee DPS against each other easily and there's a reason to take any of them without giving one of them the stupidly useless title of 'progression melee DPS'. They can do it, they're just so hesitant to do it with casters for some unknown reason. No you can't question that RDM fills a progression niche very well, that's the problem. RDM has way too much access to Raise and it's keeping them from being balanced well.

[Neela]

Hardly a surprising response from some casual EU player who can barely articulate their thoughts and whose response to balance concerns is, "Go find a different party lol"

actually it was a response from a casual view on raiders egoism ^^