Tank Balance

[SenorPatty]

Warriors got beefed like there's no tomorrow

The effect "Halves Beast Gauge costs and nullifies Stun, Sleep, Bind, Heavy, and most knockback and draw-in effects." has been changed to "Allows the use of Beast Gauge actions without cost and nullifies Stun, Sleep, Bind, Heavy, and most knockback and draw-in effects."
The additional effect "Guarantees that all attacks are critical and direct hits." has been added.
Can now be used even when Defiance is active.
No longer changes to Unchained when under the effect of Defiance.

Like holy hell...

Was the Berserk + Inner Release into Fell Cleve spam combo overpowered? Is that why Berserk’s gone now? :c

Berserk's still here but changed.

The effect "Increases attack power by 30%." has been changed to "Guarantees that all attacks are critical and direct hits."
The duration has been changed from 20 to 10 seconds.
Recast time has been increased from 60 seconds to 90 seconds.

10 secs of Crits and DH. That's cray cray
Meanwhile, DRK's just being that third child in the family that often gets neglected lol

[Fredco191]

Berserk's still here but changed.

Oh shoot. I have a comment to delete on another thread.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Warriors got beefed like there's no tomorrow

Looks can be deceiving. Bokchoy did a "napkin-math" analysis and concluded the WAR changes result in a net 5% nerf due to their lost potency across the board.

[ServerCollaps]

Looks can be deceiving. Bokchoy did a "napkin-math" analysis and concluded the WAR changes result in a net 5% nerf due to their lost potency across the board.

I'm pretty sure that SE did lots of testing etc, to make the class easier to play, but not to lower its dps
maybe you should just wait for it, do some parses and see for yourself instead of going hypocrite mode

[Oscura]

I'm pretty sure that SE did lots of testing etc, to make the class easier to play, but not to lower its dps
maybe you should just wait for it, do some parses and see for yourself instead of going hypocrite mode

Yeah, the same way they tested DRG at 4.0 launch and NIN when it released.

Realistically the WAR changes will make bad/average WARs do more damage because it's become harder to mess up, but people who are already great at the class will see a noticeable dip.

Sucks for tanks though, makes me excited to see if there's a new tank in 5.0 just to see how badly they screw it up then.

[Ellyrion]

I'm pretty sure that SE did lots of testing etc, to make the class easier to play, but not to lower its dps
maybe you should just wait for it, do some parses and see for yourself instead of going hypocrite mode

I sincerely doubt they do as much testing as you think. If they did, we wouldn't see half the issues with class changes every patch.

WAR in SB - seemed pretty straightforward, even boring, at a glance. In reality, the rotations were fairly complicated to maximize your DPS output. If they had actually run sims and did thorough testing, they would have seen that the "obvious" rotation was sub-optimal. SE tends to rely on the community to do their analysis for them.

[Kazrah]

I sincerely doubt they do as much testing as you think. If they did, we wouldn't see half the issues with class changes every patch.

I think Yoshi described their testing system for jobs in two parts at max level, with one effectively being on a dummy and another in what was considered a "raid environment" to see how effective they were at maintaining performance under typical raid stresses and obstacles, leaving the majority of test results based on statistics drawn from those conclusions.

In the words of Mark Twain, "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics". In this case, skills like Sustain were removed because the dev statistics showed it was rarely used at all, when if they had tested for something like open-area or solo gameplay, they would catch the importance of it that SMN players were well aware of before giving that ability the initial axe. There wasn't outrage because it was a popular spell being removed, but because there was no testing for the leveling process or circumstances such as solo content where support utility such as Sustain are more vital.

They're also drawing statistics from hired testers who may play the game differently (if they even play the finished product at all) from how the players may interpret a job to be played. Because of this, as long as there is little to no customer representation in the testing process to identify issues that dev testers may not pick up, then such issues will always occur. Even if there is any beta testing for players these days, there would seem to be an extreme under-representation of any data that could be yielded from it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm pretty sure that SE did lots of testing etc, to make the class easier to play, but not to lower its dps
maybe you should just wait for it, do some parses and see for yourself instead of going hypocrite mode

Uh... do you know what that word actually means? Even if Warrior's DPS turned out exactly the same, I wouldn't be a hypocrite.

As for SE doing testing. Considering how many times they've had to adjust Ninja because players found a better rotation. I have my doubts.

It means something, alright. It means that you can clear the hardest content in the game faster than anyone else even when playing a job that is, according to many, "the worst in every aspect". It also means that DRK is nowhere near as bad as you and many others are making it out to be.

That doesn't mean that DRK is fine, the job definitely has problems, but I'll say it again: It's nowhere near as bad as HW Paladin and yet somehow people are making a much bigger deal out of balancing issues than ever before. I wonder why.

It cleared Ultimate because the rapid-fire machine volley thrown at you are virtually allow magic based. This allowed DRK to spam Dark Mind and TBN. If we ever get a primarily physical based Ultimate, Dark Knight dies.

And perhaps people are making a big deal because the devs did absolutely nothing yet have changed WAR three times now. It shouldn't take almost a year for something as simple as making Dark Passenger useful and Shadow Wall not objectively the worst "big" CD.

[Kitfox]

Looks can be deceiving. Bokchoy did a "napkin-math" analysis and concluded the WAR changes result in a net 5% nerf due to their lost potency across the board.

His analysis is incomplete and napkin at best. He didn't construct the new rotation to math out the actual effects of all the variables involved. Current numbers from The Balance indicate a modest ~3% buff as long as you can fit 5 gcds into IR.

If anything, WARs should be complaining about joining in on the MCH Overheat memes. Missing that 5th gcd in the new IR is going to be huge dps loss.

[aeoncs]

Warriors got beefed like there's no tomorrow
...
10 secs of Crits and DH. That's cray cray
Meanwhile, DRK's just being that third child in the family that often gets neglected lol

Also 10 seconds of absolutely no synergy with Battle Litany and Chain Strategem, a cooldown that doesn't synergize well with other raid buffs/utility, and an overall nerf to their damage outside of the buff window. And let's not forget the super engaging gameplay of hitting FC 4-5 times in a row like a monkey every 90 seconds.
People need to see the bigger picture instead of going like "omg, free Direct Hit CritZ everywhere!". Warrior won't be buffed, it will absolutely be nerfed, both in their damage and fun factor.


B2T: Smh. I think by this point most people know that DRK has problems but can we stop acting like it's utterly useless? The job doesn't have it half as bad as the HW PLD did pretty much throughout the entire expansion - even the 3.2 changes back then didn't do much to close the huge gap. I do think that when it comes to changes being made, or rather balancing in general, SE doesn't know how to go half-way, so they either do too little (DRK) or way too much (WAR).
Tbh, Warrior Mains have way more reason to be upset right now - the upcoming changes read like a mechanical mess from a gameplay and fun factor perspective.