Caster Changes in 4.2 (RIP Casters)

[VanilleFang]

blm and sam will never and should never be part of the prog or speedkill meta

A little confused by this statement. I didn't realize certain jobs shouldn't be part of the meta...

[Elix_Moarbase]

It's sort of a buff versus Heavensward, since you don't realize Enochian and the fact we get two more Fire IVs per rotation vs HW and it was originally nerfed because the dev team thought more Fire IVs and Foul would make up the difference.

Are you trolling?

A nerf was given, a nerf was taken away. It's not a buff.

Yeah, you're trolling.

[Shiroe]

prog and speedkill meta, should those be the same? (same dps in both?)

should a class with personal low dps be in neither, when a dps with the personal highest dps be in both?

(just want blm to get in 95% of all PFs again... , eventhough a "parallel caster meta", parallel to the old physical meta, would be nice / fun..; though running 2x smn garuda & blm before 4.2 might have been close?? but double svcks)

[EllieShadeflare]

Are you trolling?

A nerf was given, a nerf was taken away. It's not a buff.

Yeah, you're trolling.

I'm sorry, but... You're still so wrong it's honestly painful. This time, I can fully explain!

Yes, Black Mage was nerfed in its potency of Fire IV (260) but we had gained a tool that was designed to work with it, replacing potency per cast of Fire IVs for quantity of Fire IVs. This was supposed to be (and currently is) the purpose of Umbral Hearts, and essentially turned our rotation into our old HW opener, but expanded our opener by two more casts of 494 potency. Only reason it felt absolutely terrible in 4.0 was because the cast time wasn't changed to accomodate our new Enochian, forcing us to use only the 2IV Fire 2IV rotation like in HW, and saving the 6-8 Fire IV potential for the opener to get Foul to reliably line up with Umbral Ice. So you are TECHNICALLY right in this front. Sort of.

But then 4.05 happened. Fire IV was now casting at 2.8, and on top of Spell Speed being easier to get, was now able to fit 3x Fire IVs before Fire as intended.

And now this happened, and we're at our old base potency of 280.

In addition, let me also prove you have no idea what you're talking about by discussing numbers. But we're not gonna talk how 6-8 casts of 260 potency is better than 4-6 casts of 280. (by the way that's a comparison of 1560 and 1120, so our rotation hits much harder now even without HW). I'm not gonna talk about how Enochian is now permanent and no longer degenerates (making the Fire IV rotation of HW rather inconsistent).

Let's talk Enochian's buff.

You are right about one thing. They're the same, base. 280 potency that turns into 504 potency, due to the 1.8x modifier of Astral Fire III. But you forget that in order to use Fire IV, you need Enochian, and that's a 5% buff in HW and 10% in SB.

So HW Fire IV is 518, and SB Fire IV is 532. On top of the cast time boost, that's objectively a 5 potency per second higher, in favor for Heavensward, with more leeway and an easier rotation. Add to this the fact that you can now fit in 6 Fire IVs per rotation and 8 per opener rather than 4 per rotation and 6 per opener, and you have yourself an objectively better version of Fire IV than in Heavensward.

[Elix_Moarbase]

I'm now going to make a nonsensical argument in reference to an argument that wasn't being made

If I could reach into the monitor and somehow slap you, I would.

You made a wall of text to state what everyone already knows and is common sense. What you're trying to do is conflate past changes with these in this patch. What is actually at play in this patch, with all other actions remaining constant, is that they are removing a nerf. What they think, which is what you think, is that the un-nerf, plus the other changes they have made, over time, to the class will fix the class.

This is incorrect. The buff isn't a buff. It's a de-nerf. The change to our base damage is an un-nerf.

You're just sprattling off, without even realizing that you're not making an argument against an argument that is actually being made.

[Mahrze]

If I could reach into the monitor and somehow slap you, I would.

You made a wall of text to state what everyone already knows and is common sense. What you're trying to do is conflate past changes with these in this patch. What is actually at play in this patch, with all other actions remaining constant, is that they are removing a nerf. What they think, which is what you think, is that the un-nerf, plus the other changes they have made, over time, to the class will fix the class.

This is incorrect. The buff isn't a buff. It's a de-nerf. The change to our base damage is an un-nerf.

You're just sprattling off, without even realizing that you're not making an argument against an argument that is actually being made.

I know someone who's like that. Explaining things to them is about as futile as breathing in outer space. Let them be, natural selection will do its job eventually.

[Remedi]

Tell that to Monk mains. Or warrior mains. Or Ranged Physical DPS classes in HW. Or Ast mains in HW.

What you refer is small changes on the numbers of their Cds/potency, we need more than that to be optimal, which is not happening during an expansion.

And quite frankly until I can test them for myself WAR changes to me are a nerf for the moment, won't comment on mnk because I don't play it

[EllieShadeflare]

If I could reach into the monitor and somehow slap you, I would.

You made a wall of text to state what everyone already knows and is common sense. What you're trying to do is conflate past changes with these in this patch. What is actually at play in this patch, with all other actions remaining constant, is that they are removing a nerf. What they think, which is what you think, is that the un-nerf, plus the other changes they have made, over time, to the class will fix the class.

This is incorrect. The buff isn't a buff. It's a de-nerf. The change to our base damage is an un-nerf.

You're just sprattling off, without even realizing that you're not making an argument against an argument that is actually being made.

So you didn't read anything. Not even the fact that we have that we have Umbral Hearts to give more Fire IVs to throw around, thereby increasing the total damage vs. our Fire rotation vs the 4x Fire IV rotation from HW tells you anything?

Not even the 2.8s cast is a buff?

Not even realizing that we have a bigger spell, Foul, that was designed to offset the potency per cast?

Heck, just put in the numbers now. Enochian's current 10%, which has existed since 4.0, objectively makes the return of 280 base potency all that much stronger versus the HW numbers.

What looks like a de-nerf is a buff, when you include the other changes that are about that ability

but sure we can just cherry pick what we want to make our own conclusions, context is deeeeeeeeeeead

TL;DR, you'd be right but only in a vacuum.

[Maero]

Obviously patch notes were also not read were some think blm actually DID get a buff even worthwhile mentioning.
A screenshot of the changes were posted by OP....

[Elix_Moarbase]

I will continue to argue with myself about how removing a nerf is actually a buff, because they made other changes to the class. So, you know, even though the potency change is what we had in 3x-- because other changes were made-- the class is now fixed. Because, you know, things were changed over time making this removal of a previous nerf, a buff. You can keep saying that this patch simply and literally removes a nerf from 3x, but I will continually argue about how this patch is actually a buff.

I really don't know what else to say here, except 'smh.'


Oh, there's a vacuum. You just haven't realized where it's located.